astroboy

iTrader: (18)

Bringing it back!

Just started working on it again and it is still not going. I:

-Added a ground to the intake manifold
-Checked the other grounds
-Installed the Aeromotive fpr (flushed the fuel and the pressure is 50psi that holds for hours)
-Left the tps disconnected (I am in mapdot still)

When watching the log, it shows 14 degrees spark...the afr go from 21 to 7 after cranking. Does that show the engine is flooding? I am attaching the log for your viewing pleasure.

Think I should do the starter fluid still? Any other input? Holy **** this car needs to drive!

240_to_miata

iTrader: (2)

You have an LC1 right? It doesnt go active till a few seconds after the car is on so u wont get a true reading during cranking.

If its a AEM then IDK.

jch13

General rule of thumb, to the best of my knowledge, is that WBO2 doesn't really work at all for diagnosing starts.

What I've done (IIRC) is start with something like 2x your req fuel for your cranking pulse, and start there. Then methodically remove small amounts of fuel until you get a nice start.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

I moved my ground for my LC1 its own decidate ground back to the fuel rail ground and I can now log startup events once the heater has warmed...

astroboy

iTrader: (18)

I have lc1 grounded to the same ground as the ecu. I also waited for the heater to do its thing before attempting to start. I am going to pull the plugs, disconnect the fuel pump power, and make sure it is sparking in the proper order...then if it is mess with the cas to see if any other position will yield better results.

astroboy

iTrader: (18)

Hard to tell if it was sparking in the proper order but it looks like some good sparks, also messing with the cas yielded no improvement.

Lastly I forgot starter fluid because I was focused on finishing opening my pool so I'll be doing that first thing tomorrow morning followed by checking my startup fueling and trying to conceive a way to check the spark order is correct.

curly

iTrader: (25)

You're sure 1&4 and 2&3 are firing together? It's easy to confuse injector pairs and coil pairs, since they're different. I have to look at my stock bracket every once in a while to remind me which is which.

astroboy

iTrader: (18)

Something fishy is going on with my injector wiring. I did continuity checks and saw continuity between pin 2u and 3 out of 4 injectors on both pins (with the injector unplugged). I then checked at the inner bulkhead connector and 2u and 2v are separate. Guess it is time to recheck the wiring :(

Once I found that I didn't feel a need to continue so tomorrow should provide some resolution. Also going to be looking at the cop firing and rechecking the pinout on the cas as now I am doubting myself big time.

astroboy

iTrader: (18)

Well now I am stupid confused!

When I disconnected the one and three injectors there was no continuity between the two injector banks (the yellow and yellow/black wires), but when I plugged either one or three injector in (and I tried every injector combo) there was continuity between both injector banks.

Why would that be? The only thing I can think of is they all have the same power source and when I plug them in they are completing the circuit and both injector banks are connection (via the power wire [wht/red]). Anybody? Is this normal?


EDIT: After thinking about it the circuits are connected to the power circuit with a 12.3Ω coil separating each so they would all connect (or at least look connected to a fluke) when the injectors are installed. Sooooo I think this is normal, I am going to make sure the coils and injectors are wired to the proper cylinders tonight.

ScottFW

iTrader: (4)

Looks like you have figured this out already, but yes all injectors share a common 12V and are ground switched. When I was wiring mine up for sequential I found the madracki wiring diagrams to be a good online resource when I didn't have my FSM in front of me.
http://www.madracki.com/miata/wiring.html

If you're worried about injector wiring you should test it with all injectors unplugged. Then just make sure each injector is 12-13 ohms by itself.

astroboy

iTrader: (18)

Yeah, some thinking about it after getting some sleep allowed me to think more logically about it. All the injector resistances have already been verified so I'll be double checking the injector wiring (same way you stated as that is the only way this can be accomplished). Then make sure the cops are firing in the correct order and then I am out of ideas.

Thanks for the input!

240_to_miata

iTrader: (2)

Ls1

astroboy

iTrader: (18)

Only if your helping me install it


No power last night so I worked by flashlight. Injector and cop signals are coming from and going to the correct places. Really running low on ideas now.

shlammed

iTrader: (8)

Go back to the very basics!

Fuel - pressure, injectors firing
Ignition - all firing, sync timing on #1 with the crank
Compression - verify
Air - make sure its getting in.

Besides that you should be able to check all of your sensors through the ECU on your laptop.

Start with a new base tune that is modified to your setup so you have went through all of the steps and can verify everything that has changed is in the tune(save your old one) update firmware and you should be golden.

curly

iTrader: (25)

I agree with shlammed, if it's taken me this long, I usually missed something basic. After re-verifying all of what he mentioned, put brand new plugs in, ungapped.

Everything except what your testing should be disabled, so these new plugs should be the first and only start attempt with all systems plugged in. I'd use a MSPNP base map, changing only req fuel for your start.

jch13

One time I couldn't get an engine started it was because the engine was blown, i.e. very low compression. Are you confident that your engine is solid?

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

and you're getting RPMs in TS, and spark and fuel?

is it possible to run that MS on another 90-93?

astroboy

iTrader: (18)

Fuel - pressure, injectors firing

Pressure is @50psi at the fpr, injector wiring is verified correct and all injectors are at 12.3Ω, and when I pull a plug after cranking there is fuel on it

Ignition - all firing, sync timing on #1 with the crank

All coils ohm out correctly and have been verified to fire. I'll look at timing again after I try starter fluid

Compression - verify

1:135
2:135
3:135
4:150

Air - make sure its getting in.

Nothing is impeding the air (no blockages)

I am looking at my tune now for something that may be hindering this starting thing. I will download a base tune for comparison.

I already tried it with brand new ungapped plugs. The only thing I didn't do was the base tune.

This was my compression:
1:135
2:135
3:135
4:150

Yes, yes, and yes (Or at least as far as I can tell). I know only two other miata people and they are all far away. Maybe I could beg Mighty Mouse to let me try my MS in his car.

shlammed

iTrader: (8)

will the amphenol used flow the current you need?


Last thing to check after you have made sure all of that works is the continuity of EVERY electrical connection from ECU to plug as well as grounds to ground and positive leads to ground for power.

With what you say... assuming the wiring is adequate and properly connected you have improper timing on something... be it injectors, spark or cam

Cam timing would be more obvious and was detailed earlier in this thread... but if you still have the stock intake cam... its worth a shot (at this point)

240_to_miata

iTrader: (2)

If i am actually in my apartment for long enough i will take one of your old tunes i have on my laptop, change it to your injector size, and then give it to you.

I am in georgia now, flying home tomorrow afternoon, limerock all day saturday to watch, and sunday ill be at my parents house, monday I fly back to georgia. So no promises.

Are you SURE those are the injectors you think they are and not like 550s or something?