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Old 10-30-2012, 07:35 PM   #181
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I'm not giving up yet!
If you have access to that TIG, don't give up. It took me nearly an entire bottle of argon before I could make acceptable welds, and another 2 or 3 before I could make decent looking welds in stainless and aluminum. My welds still aren't that pretty, and I've been welding for 3 years now. It just takes practice.
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:13 PM   #182
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If you have access to that TIG, don't give up. It took me nearly an entire bottle of argon before I could make acceptable welds, and another 2 or 3 before I could make decent looking welds in stainless and aluminum. My welds still aren't that pretty, and I've been welding for 3 years now. It just takes practice.
Also might be worth taking a class at the local community college. That's what I'm doing! (I'm going for a full associates degree in welding tech)
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:20 PM   #183
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18psi why don't you like the WA IC? I love mine, it is very effective on an M45 putting 9psi I measured the SC outlet temp at the end of the straight at Putman park at 225 before the IC and 130 after it and it does not hear soak after 30 min of lapping either, I'll give you that it is heavier than and mor complex than an AA IC. Take a look
Putman Park 23 October 2011 Harold Supercharged Miata - YouTube
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Old 11-01-2012, 03:38 PM   #184
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If you have access to that TIG, don't give up. It took me nearly an entire bottle of argon before I could make acceptable welds, and another 2 or 3 before I could make decent looking welds in stainless and aluminum. My welds still aren't that pretty, and I've been welding for 3 years now. It just takes practice.
I am buying a TIG welder this afternoon. I now know I should plan for my first 3 argon bottles to be used practicing welding things together before I attempt to build my first manifold.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:29 PM   #185
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I am buying a TIG welder this afternoon. I now know I should plan for my first 3 argon bottles to be used practicing welding things together before I attempt to build my first manifold.
Everyone is different. A lot of it depends on your natural rhythm and hand eye coordination. Its funny how different people weld when they first start, I couldnt (and really still cant) put down a pretty bead, but my welds almost always have the correct penetration and I'm starting to put less and less heat into the part. But I've seen other people lay down a stack of dimes their first try, perfect looking till you realize its just some pretty filler rod and they didnt get hardly any penetration. I would see if there is a local metal distributor near you that sells drops or metal packs really cheap. The best thing to do your first hour or two welding on is a 3/8 steel plate. Just keep making beads on that till they look good, and you can keep them straight for a few inches long (really hard to do on a plate with no point of reference, drawing on the plate in a line with a sharpie where you want the bead helps). Then you can start sticking random scrap on there, starting with easy but welds then going to tubes. Once you're done you'll have a nice piece of modern art you can give to your mom.

And remember to clean it, buy more wire brushes than you think you need. And buy way more tungsten than you think you need unless you have super awesome hand eye coordination, because you will stick the tungsten in the weld pool, a lot.
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Old 11-01-2012, 05:26 PM   #186
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18psi why don't you like the WA IC? I love mine, it is very effective on an M45 putting 9psi I measured the SC outlet temp at the end of the straight at Putman park at 225 before the IC and 130 after it and it does not hear soak after 30 min of lapping either, I'll give you that it is heavier than and mor complex than an AA IC. Take a look
Putman Park 23 October 2011 Harold Supercharged Miata - YouTube
Heavier.
More expensive.
Not any more efficient.
Way more potential failure points.

That's pretty much it. On our cars, fmic routing and placement is fairly straightforward. I see no reason to complicate things for absolutely no benefit. Just doesn't make any sense.
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Old 11-01-2012, 05:32 PM   #187
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The one place where W/A dominates is throttled volume on a supercharged setup. That's the reason I originally got mine. Now I'm keeping it for my turbo too, because I'm cheap. It's been great until it gets totally heat soaked (which I've only managed once). If it weren't for me being a complete tight wad on this turbo build, I would have an A/A FMIC just like everyone else.
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Old 11-01-2012, 07:19 PM   #188
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Think I could build manifold with this?
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Old 11-01-2012, 07:41 PM   #189
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Think I could build manifold with this?
Yup, in fact I know you can! Same TIG I have. I love it for what it is, nice stable arc, and easy to set up. I will probably upgrade to a Miller Dynasty in the next couple of years for size and more settings.

As far as EFR fitment goes, I'm about 99% sure you can't fit an EFR with a low mount setup and keep ps and ic, even just one is tough to fit. I spent a lot of time choosing turbo location when I made the mani that is now on soviet's car, and it is just a big turbo. It's CHRA is longer, and the integrated recirc valve takes up some more space.

When I make my setup for my NC, I am going to try like hell to fit an EFR, but I know that a v-banded gt2871 with external wastegate may be the only option if I want to keep the engine bay "stock" looking for smog reasons .
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Old 11-01-2012, 08:35 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by baron340 View Post
If you have access to that TIG, don't give up. It took me nearly an entire bottle of argon before I could make acceptable welds, and another 2 or 3 before I could make decent looking welds in stainless and aluminum. My welds still aren't that pretty, and I've been welding for 3 years now. It just takes practice.
Yep, gonna just plan on filling the bottle at work a few times until I can get decent. I don't really care about pretty either, as long as they are sound.

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Also might be worth taking a class at the local community college. That's what I'm doing! (I'm going for a full associates degree in welding tech)
Looked into the local CC classes as well, but I'm not ready to devote that much time to learning it yet, and I missed the short summer session this year. If I can't get it down with help from the guys at work, then yeah maybe. We just picked up a vertical mill today so I might be going for training on that anyway.
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Old 11-01-2012, 09:51 PM   #191
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This is the bottle of argon that came with the welder. It feels just about full. How long will argon last? The seller said he bought the bottle new probably 4 years ago and it has just laid on its side in a shed since then. Can I still use it or should I take it up to my local shop and exchange it?
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:42 PM   #192
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Thumbs up DYI manifold

The only way to know how much argon you have is to install the regulator, open the valve and see what pressure you have in the bottle, a full bottle is usually 2200 to 2500 psi, argon will not go bad so you can use it as long as it is there.
FYI many bottles are leased from gas companies, you can look at the top of the bottle below the valve there is a ring that will have a gas company name if it is a leased bottle, if it does not have a name you are in luck and can get your bottle re-filled anywhere (it may need a hydrostatic test). Iif it is a leased bottle only that company will want to fill it and they may ask you questions about where you got the bottle from if you are not a regular customer.
Another tip is to get an auto darkening helmet, it makes things easier when starting out. Good luck
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:53 PM   #193
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That looks like about a 200 CF tank, and you could run about 15cfh on your regulator +-5 or so, which will give you about 12 hours of weld time. That machine also has a built in post flow after you stop the arc, which will use a little more gas at the end of each weld.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:32 AM   #194
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shuiend, I see that came with the ark welding clamp too. If you really want to learn how to do gap filling mess around with that. You'll blow all sorts of holes in stuff learning to ark weld. And 2nd hammer's auto darkening helmet, and dont be cheap, buy a top of the line one the first time. Your eyes are worth 200 bucks right? Sure a 100 buck one will save your eyes just as well but you'll start to hate the tiny viewing area.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:53 AM   #195
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shuiend, I see that came with the ark welding clamp too. If you really want to learn how to do gap filling mess around with that. You'll blow all sorts of holes in stuff learning to ark weld. And 2nd hammer's auto darkening helmet, and dont be cheap, buy a top of the line one the first time. Your eyes are worth 200 bucks right? Sure a 100 buck one will save your eyes just as well but you'll start to hate the tiny viewing area.
The welder has actually only been used for ark welding. I am not sure if I will ever mess with that, I will probably stick to TIG welding.

It came with a helmet already, not sure if auto darkening or not. I will try using it for a bit until I get paid next and can afford a decent helmet, although I have heard tons of people on here recommending the HF auto darkening one.

In a bit I will be running up to the local welding shop and the plan is to pick up tig torch, tungston, tig rods, gloves, and the hose to go from the argon tank to the welder. Then hopefully this weekend or early next week have the correct outlet installed in my house. Then I get to find scrap mild steal and start practicing.
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:30 AM   #196
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I'm sure they'll help with this, but dont forget the different diameter cups, different size collets (or just get 3/32 for now), and different length torch caps (or just long and short). Torchwise, if they have one with a thumb control, get it if you ever have to do welding like under a car or standing on your head or some **** you'll love it. A flexi torch is kind of nice too but if its too much more, or means you cant get a thumb control, F it.

I have used an HF one, and I personally own an El cheapo. They're ok. But the random el cheapo I have, needs to be left out in some strong lighting for a little bit before you use it or it'll flicker, and on the HF ones the **** for the lens darkness seem to break off (you can use a 5/32 allen wrench to adjust after it breaks off irrc), and they seem a tad slow at darkening. I know I get a head ache with them if I weld for more than like 10 minutes.
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:36 AM   #197
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I bought my autodarkening mask at Lowes for like $80, no it's not as nice as the $400 miller one, but it does the job just fine and I have no complaints with it. I also don't use gloves for what that's worth to you. I learned to weld without gloves on a water cooled torch, and now I just wear one cheapo mechanics glove since my torch is air cooled and it gets hot. Beyond that, I've never been able to get the same control wearing gloves.

Other than that, the biggest advice I can give you is make sure everything is as clean as you can get it. And DO NOT EVER use brake parts cleaner before welding. Not all formulas are dangerous, but some of them, when hit with an arc put off an incredibly dangerous nerve gas, like one tiny whiff and you're permanently paralized, if not dead, kind of dangerous. And right now, I just don't remember the difference.
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:42 AM   #198
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Oh yeah the chlorine gas from welding on something cleaned with chlorinated brake klean (yay WWI era chemical weapons). Supposedly it smells like rotten tomatoes, then you collapse and cant move as your lungs start to fill with fluid and you are in the most pain ever in your life and are just praying someone comes by and opens the door.

Gloves wise. If you learn with mig gloves, the day you put on kidd skins (baby goat leather tig gloves) will be like the day you've raced on all seasons your whole life and then put hoosiers on.
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:44 AM   #199
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The welder has actually only been used for ark welding. I am not sure if I will ever mess with that, I will probably stick to TIG welding.
I would stick weld the whole thing if using schedule 40. I usually only use tig when the wall thickness is below 2 mm.


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And DO NOT EVER use brake parts cleaner before welding. Not all formulas are dangerous, but some of them, when hit with an arc put off an incredibly dangerous nerve gas, like one tiny whiff and you're permanently paralized, if not dead.
Please post the brand name. I need to get this stuff!
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Old 11-02-2012, 03:16 PM   #200
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Please post the brand name. I need to get this stuff!
Just go mix some ammonia and bleach, you'll get something close. But don't come complaining to me when you have to install hand controls in your car because your legs don't work anymore.
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