Well, that fun, even if (name of dirty rat bastard redacted) had to quit the party early and doom us all to fiery death. :D

Despite being walked on during the last wave, was good time.

Not sure I'm the best demo, but it worked decently.

I hate having to quit on the last wave. We were so strong up to that point, damnit.

We really need to be better at collecting money, especially during the last wave. Ubers and crit boosts are mandatory for survival.

I think I have concluded that upgrading multiple weapons for one class is unpossible. Consumes to many funds and doesnt leave you with enough power in the end.

I think we need to ditch pyro and either dual wrangled engineer or dual heavy (brass beast/natascha). I was doing ok as our demoman, but I wasn't a rockstar. I have really learned to love the Scottish resistance though.

he's too busy with his mom's shoes and his my little ponys.

Dude, my mom's shoes haven't fit me since I was 11.

Er, I mean...

(crap.)

I'll be happy to come in as demo or engie on the next one. I'm partial to pyro on these maps where you get wave after wave of scouts and soldiers, as you can just light 'em up and let 'em burn on their own, but those last couple of waves definitely could have used some more lead in the air.

A pyro or scout is absolutely necessary for money collection.

Yeah, that too.

Honestly, I think having a scout is kind of pointless when a pyro is present. Pyro can easily deal with snipers, and money pickup, *and* spychecking, making him a very versatile class. When his backburner is equipped and upgraded, he's also quite effective against the bigger bots once they've been separated from the hoard.

Scouts are a support class, not a class like the pyro in MVM.

A properly upgraded and played Scout is woah for what it gives. The teams I've played on play a soldier in place of where we should have a scout due to the soldier's buff - but scout completely outclasses soldier in what they are able to bring to the group.

Pyro sucks for picking up money, has to be a scout. Scouts pick up money at 2x the range as everyone else and have a magnetic effect. Scout needs to build extra balls, full damage resist, full heal over time, move speed and jump. All they do it run around getting money, killing snipers, marking and bonking.

2 heavy's > 2 eng but heaves need to go full damage res more then dps as a dead heavy is useless.

Pryo I see being a waste as they die way to fast. Again they need to have full damage res and put more damage into burn over time then up frount damage. Good if there is a spot to back blast bomb off.

I'm starting to think a medic might be better then a Eng and we might wont to try it once as I think the medic can get a multiple heal upgrade and heals heavies faster.

Demo is give and take as it depends on the person's ability to get the bombs down before medics. Maybe switch it out for a 2nd buff banner?

Example. Last night I have 1 blast res, 2 crit res, and 3 bullet res. Heaves and super heaves didn't kill me and only hit for 2-5hp per shot.

Joe. You gotta get more comfortable with the airblast. Sending the bomb into the canyon or down a chute is as good as money considering its one less thing to worry about for a good 5 minutes.

I agree with Jeff. I am curious what a medic could do in MVM. I will happily volunteer as that is the second class I play with most.

When we had Virant with a brass beast and myself with a Natasha it was almost impenetrable. I may have a brass beast for someone if they do not have.

A good pyro is nuts. I think soldier, spy, and sniper are pretty much useless in MVM, and medic may be not very worthwhile.

The problem we have had with medics in the past is they don't really add any damage unless they go kritzkrieg, and the kritzkrieg is obsolete compared to canteens. Hence, we'd be unable to keep up with heavy DPS required waves. I.e., any wave with two tanks was an auto-lose for us.

None of you guys ever seem to want to invite me to a game anymore :tear:

Agreed- I've not been sufficiently aggressive with the airblast- not just in MvM but in the regular games as well. I definitely missed a couple of opportunities to displace the bomb, and I'd mostly been focused on trying to separate robomedics from their uber-targets.

Having a second engie would be beneficial, especially with the wrangler equipped from an area where he is out of range of the incoming army but has good visibility down the choke points. I'm not sure that having a medic on the team would justify the loss of firepower, however. Once the robots get sufficiently near spawn, I'm perfectly happy to charge face-first into death in order to make a save, and then immediately buy back into the game with minimal loss of time.

Dispensers give us most of the effect of the medic anyways. It's not a bad choice at all to go with MOAR ENGIES since we don't see a loss of firepower with them and get most of a medic from them too.

The only thing about the engine that bothers me is his lack of mobility, especially in waves where you have multiple giant / uber enemies incoming. It's hard for him respond to changing battlefield conditions (eg: to move up to the front / fall back to spawn while under fire) as he's totally defenseless while carrying his sentry. And a single Sentry Buster essentially takes him offline for however long it takes to draw it out away from the dispenser, let it detonate, and then run back.

Engie is one of my favorite classes in maps like payload or CTF, where he can set up a nice little campsite and wait for disorganized enemies to wander into his line of fire one by one, but I haven't really mastered him in MvM yet.

Frankly, the engies I've liked most have left their sentry where they had it (to take care of oncoming enemies) while they went with the rest of the group to DPS the tanks/big enemies.

Having the small fry off our backs while we take care of the nasty stuff is really, really nice.

This is the entire purpose of the disposable sentry upgrade.

Heh. Yeah, I've seen you there.

I thought the Sentry Buster ignored disposable mini-sentries and only went for the big ones, no? Or do you just mean to leave it behind as a CYA while maneuvering.



I am the *CAMP MASTER* baby! I think my best is something like 30 sentry kills in a single life.

Whenever I've played engi, it's always gone for the closest sentry to it. It's a question of placing your disposable sentry correctly - at least in my experience, YMMV as always.

Yeah, the other team probably hates your guts :P

Hmm. I was just going off of what the TF2 Wiki said in that regard:Well, I can't imagine why.

I don't typically spawn camp, but in CTF maps which lend themselves towards intel camping, I typically try to ally with one or two other engines and set up a sentry farm in or near the intel which allows us to perform complete area denial against incoming enemy. Even a cloaked spy is no match for three sentries in a triangulated array, with engines and dispensers handling sapper removal and repair. I'm perfectly happy to let the folks upstairs have the guts and glory trying to snatch the enemy intel so long as I can completely prevent the enemy from ever laying hands on ours.

Actually, I remember one match where we actually managed to plant a pair of sentries and a teleporter exit inside the enemy intel. That one had me laughing pretty hard.

If the disposable sentry is in the path the sentry buster follows to blow up the sentry, it blows up when it runs across the disposable.

Or at least it has every time I've gone engi.

That is so evil, Joe. Lulz!

Hm.

Well, I have yet to play Engie in MvM, so I guess I'll have to do some practice along those lines. Expect me to be unavailable for MT team play for a day or two as I experiment with Engie in bootcamp.



Yeah, that one was in fact evil. And to be fair, they managed to destroy us pretty quickly. But it was fun while it lasted (I think I have a screenshot of it somewhere.)

Pfft, experiment with the MT group man. No worries there.

But every time I've tried that, MT or non-MT, it's worked for me. My biggest pain in the ass has always been keeping that sentry up.

I'm going to have to try to duplicate this in a pub game vs. a bad team. That's lulzy.

One of our sillier setups- five sentries in a crossfire formation just outside the intel room:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1346817159

To be fair, the one at the base of the spiral staircase was un-necessary and probably should have been upstairs. But aside from that, this was a totally unbeatable configuration. I don't think the other team scored a single capture on that round. Lots of ragequits.

How the hell did you sneak 5 engies past to set that up? Unless one of you somehow managed to deploy a level 3 teleporter and everyone went through carrying a level 3 sentry?

Fairly certain his image is of a defensive position around his intel. The other one he mentioned wasn't as elaborate and would have had a red logo on the floor?

Yea... That...could...be...it :facepalm:

you might win the rounds that way, but it's sooooo boring.

Yeah, this was a round where we got just absolutely silly with the defensive sentries, and created a formation that completely denied the enemy access to the area. They kept on nibbling at it with different classes, but nobody was able to get through.

In this screenshot, I am standing behind my own sentry, with the pistol in hand for spy-checking duty. My dispenser is directly behind me, so that I can continuously wrench on the sentry in the event that we are attacked. Note the MiataTurbo.net logo sprayed onto the wall at the right of frame. :D


So, victory is sometimes boring.

I can deal with that.

Joe, you should post the logo you use for us to spray. It looks so much better than any of the ones I have.

Attached is a ZIP containing the VTF and VMT files, along with the original transparent PNG. Here's what it looks like full-size:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1346861717

Hehe, time for us to spam TF2 walls!

^This. I try to do it, but my logo isn't anywhere as nice as Joe's.

We are triumphant! Short one squad ticket, but still :p.

That was one hell of a haul from that game, Split. One hell of a haul! Too bad we didn't have 6 though :(.

I return to my PC to see a bunch of chat invites from Ant. Sorry I missed you guys tonight. On the plus side, my car now has two functional doors, so that's a good thing.

I got bumped off just as the swag screen was loading. I probably got hosed on the swag download. It started to say I got one item before it cut off.

The items are are tracked on Valve's end, so you probably got everything.

Nice game last night guys.

When the time clicked over midnight while we were on the last wave, after like 4 losses all I kept thinking was "Jeff better not say he has to go".

I did learn some useful tactics as the game developed. If I waited off to the side for the heavy that was following the tank to get engaged by you guys, he would then completely ignore me coming right up behind him and lighting him up. Same with the other two or three heavies that come right behind him. Once tehy are engaged from the front none of them will turn around.

I also made good use of the ubercharge and increased speed features once learning how to equip them. I initially didn't know I could change tabs at the top while at the store and upgrade things other than just in the weapon tab. Duh, learning curve.

The Rainblower has no real airblast, btw. I did try to use it a couple of times and it sputtered lightly and made little ripples but did nothing to the bomb. My other level 10 weapon has no airblast either.

Yep, hosed.

Just to clarify, you cannot airblast the bomb as it lays on the ground. You have to airblast an enemy carrying the bomb. This is why sometimes you want to lure the enemy onto a bridge or equivalent to buy us more time. Its risky but if done right really helps.

Do you have The Back Burner? I got one in the haul last night, ill trade you.

As for the error, you should have been given the option to either keep whats on the cloud or push local data. Did you check your back pack and confirm the items are missing?

The rainblower is functionally identical to the stock flame thrower, Sam. It's just reskinned.

Airblast is a little tougher in the MvM rounds, I think. It seems as though robots are heavier than their meat-based counterparts insofar as the airblaster's effect is concerned, thus the need for the airblaster upgrades.

As for backburner- it is amazing. 100% crits from behind with no ammo penalty (well, airblast costs a lot more ammo, but it's worth it.) This is why, in the MvM rounds, I always start out right at the jumping-off point, so than when the bots enter the arena I'm already behind them. I just wish that the crits were also effective against tanks, which they don't seem to be.

I wish that the heavy's minigun was effective against tanks. wtf@12-13 damage a hit at minimum range!

This is another reason why I prefer Pyro over Heavy in these rounds.

Pyro has two big advantages. With Backburner, he can crit normal bots at will. And in waves where you have large numbers of relatively weak bots swarming the battlefield, Pyro can just run around like a madman setting everybody on fire, and provided that he's upgraded his burn time and damage, many of them will die from just the afterburn alone. Those who don't will be sufficiently softened up that the second-wave defenders (heavies, engies, etc) will have a much easier time picking them off, and will be able to spread their bullets around much more effectively.


That said, I did play as engie a bit the night before last, and his wrangled sentry sure is a thing of beauty against massive, slow moving opponents such as the tank and the "large" bots.

I needed to know this.

I don't have the Back Burner. I'll gladly accept the trade, although I don't know if I have anything of value to you to trade back.

I don't know what I got from the haul because it burped and kicked me off last night before I could see what was there. There are a few new items in my backpack but I think I acquired them along the way yesterday before going over to mvm and not at the end of the mission.
There are two types of damage to choose from under the flamethrower tab, "damage" and underneath that "burn damage". Which is the one I should concentrate on and what is the difference?

A couple of us have a spare backburner we can just give you no problem, Six.

Burn damage is afterburn.

I don't need anything of value back for it. Though I did use my soda popper in a craft, would be cool if you had one.

Otherwise, I want the team better equipped the next time we play.

I also have a brass beast for someone if they want to double as heavy.

And "damage" is the immediate damage caused to someone while you are actively standing there firing at them.

Both are important, but which one is more important depends somewhat on your style of play.

If you tend to simply "fire and forget", lighting up large numbers of enemy and letting them scatter, then you will want to increase both Burn Time and Burn Damage, so that they stay on fire longer, and take more damage in the process.

On the other hand, fur the purpose of making a sustained assault on a single enemy, such as going nose-to-nose with a tank or circling around a Giant Heavy and hitting him continuously, this where where regular Damage comes into play.

Thank you! What are the advantages of the backburner?
Thanks to you as well. No soda poppers here, but I got a juicy ribeye steak the last go-around for some reason.
Thank you for the thoroughness of your explanation. It helps to know what and why for the sake of strategy on so many levels. BTW, I can certainly tell when I am up against noobs like myself or seasoned players in some of the other games. They know the tricks to playing smart that only come with time in the game.

I hope we start earlier next time because getting finished at 12:30am and waking up at 5:30 for work is kicking my ass today. Let's just say that my mental acuity is a bit weak today.

I don't think tanks are necessarily a good reason to go for pyro over heavy. I may bitch about it, but a heavy with brass beast, even on a tank, is still good damage.

If you hit something from behind, it auto-crits 100%. It can't crit otherwise though.

When you have 2 engineers it is amazing. You have 1 of them using the wrangler and the other repairing the sentry so that it has infinite ammo.

I may be on tonight. It depends if coworkers try to get me to play sc2 or not and how late I want to stay up.

I carry the brass beast mostly and switch to natasha for missions with big scouts. If there is a second heavy playing usually with Virant, I could play Natasha the whole time. Its invaluable against sentry busters as well since it slows them to a crawl.

I also gave up the sandvich for family business to handle enemies after ammo runs out and its great against spies and snipers. I also carry warriors spirit gloves for a lot more melee against tanks. With the warriors spirit the third punch crit is 253 damage. Yea I lose the run speed from the gloves of urgency but the extra damage is nice.

Though yesterday we had a nice time with the medic before I crashed out, a part of me almost wants to give it a try and see how it lends itself.

Anyone wanna trade me a direct hit?

Yeah, a Heavy is definately the best class (after the Wrangler Engineer) for going face-to-face with a tank. However the Pyro is a more well-rounded class than the Heavy when you consider all of the non-Tank enemies, especially given the fact that you can't really upgrade two different characters effectively in a single round.

At lest, for me it is. I grant you that I've seen some players who can use the Heavy very effectively in close-quarters combat. I'm just not at that skill level.

I'm going to have to agree-yet-disagree. I think it depends *a lot more* on class balance as to what class is better.

The best team we've had (IMO at least) was 2x engi, 2x heavy, pyro, and something else.

If you asked me to swap a pyro for a heavy, I'd go fuck no. A heavy for a pyro? Fuck no again. An engi for a pyro or a heavy, or vice versa? Fuck no.

The reality is you can't have everyone, or even 3 people be the same class, or it seriously penalizes you. I'm slightly confused as to an argument relating to "which is better?" when the argument should be (at least IMO) "which class composition is best?"

That's a fair assessment, and I'm largely biased by which classes I'm most skilled at.

I like playing Heavy as offense in payload maps, or in payload races. It's an easy class to play, since you have essentially infinite health and ammo. You just stay behind the cart and kill anything that moves.

By contrast, I'm not very good with Heavy in maps like CTF. I don't know why, I've just not developed the skill for it. I'm much better as Engineer in those.

In some maps, I love Pyro. Special Delivery is a good example here. That game mode tends to attract a lot of snipers who hang back and pick off the opposing team on the elevator, so I can have a ball spending the whole game just ambushing snipers and eliminating them.

Some classes I've never found a use for. Demo, for instance. He's a valuable character in the right hands, but I just seem to suck at playing him. Same goes for Scout.

Oh man, I love demo. I fucking love demo.

I can play every class to a certain extent of skill, but Demo and Soldier are my standout favorites. But I never play soldier in MVM typically, and only play Demo rarely.

Demo is incredibly useful in certain situations in MVM, but it's also incredibly dependant on overall class balance on whether it's even worth it to have the demo or not. That's kind of the issue with class balance in MVM - at least 4 classes are totally worthless (Spy, soldier, sniper, medic), and 2 are only situationally useful (Demo, Scout). A soldier can be played in place of a scout if necessary, but a properly equipped scout blows a soldier out of the water.

I may spend the cash to equip a Scout for MT MVM.

want a smooth gaming experience? go buy my graphics card in sales area

Link it beyotch.

BAM!
https://www.miataturbo.net/stuff-sal...200-obo-68246/