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Old 07-16-2015, 03:45 PM   #481
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<p>
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePass View Post
Unless you have infrared sensors on your rotors and KNOW what temperature range your pads are operating at, you don't even have enough data to begin to choose two different pads to combine together. I have IR datalogging on my rotor temps, but my data will not be your data.
</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I've been meaning&nbsp;to follow up on this with you. How has the IR temp data logging system been working for you so far? Anyone else here interested in a real time brake rotor temp data?</p>

Last edited by cyotani; 07-16-2015 at 06:32 PM.
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Old 07-16-2015, 04:13 PM   #482
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Some issues with my power supply, I believe it is related to my vehicle's wiring not your unit. I haven't had the opportunity to do as much testing as I'd like, since it is usually working only partially each day, but lots of data still which has helped me with tuning.

The long-winded email I sent you a couple months ago had details and suggestions for minor improvements, but overall it's a great tool.
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Old 07-16-2015, 04:32 PM   #483
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Originally Posted by cyotani View Post
Anyone else here interested in a real time brake rotor temp data?</p>
I still want it, but I've barely been on track this year so it's been pretty far down my list. Glad to hear that your stuff is out there being used.
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Old 07-16-2015, 04:39 PM   #484
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I have in the past run A1RM's and the front and EBC greens on the rear without any issues on the street. However since the car now spends more time on the track I have switched to a Winmax W5/W3 combination.

After rebuilding the rear calipers, master and proportioning valve the rears are locking up way earlier than the fronts. Changing to a Winmax W6.5 front pad for more 'bite' instead of installing a manual bias valve. However, the car is having another test day soon on a different track so will see how the car feels after this and make some more decisions.

Notwithstanding the W6.5's will help with on a hill climb event I have entered as they work from a lower temp than the W5's.

For my rotor temps I use thermo paint (http://www.racerindustries.com.au/af...cator-Kit.html) and whilst it does not give an exact temperature (between 450°C to 650°C), it does give a good indication of the max range and this is sufficent to make a decision on pads (at least for me). The paints will last many applications so it is an economical choice if you do not want to go the full data logging route. Plus I have no spare data logging channels, need t think about expanding this at some point...

An alternative to infrared sensors would be to use a rub type K Thermocouple http://www.tcdirect.net.au/deptprod.asp?deptid=180/44

The reason I use Winmax is that I get them for a very good price.

The car is running the NB8B sport brakes and DBA T3 rotors.

Last edited by Eipgam; 07-16-2015 at 04:59 PM.
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Old 07-16-2015, 05:05 PM   #485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OGRacing View Post
do not sand a rotor.
Interesting. Mixed based on the below but sounds like new rotors with a new pad type is the way to go.

From Hawk on bedding in pads:
"Clean a used rotor surface with fine sand paper or steel wool, rinse with water, dry and install before
bedding new pads."

From CarboTech:
"If rotors were previously bedded using a different manufacturer’s brake pads; then it is strongly recommended that the used discs (rotors) be reconditioned/turned and meet minimum specification requirements."

From 949 racing sight:
"Carbotech brakes require their own, uncontaminated transfer layer made by Carbotech pads. If this is not done, you will not experience the full potential of the ceramic-kevlar compound.

You will need to do one of the following:

Resurface your old rotors
Completely remove the old transfer layer with a steel wire brush/flapper disc on a drill/grinder
New rotors"

Stoptech:
They actually talk about using a different brake pad to essentially scrub off older pad material. "Uneven pad deposits can often be effectively removed from rotors by using a pad compound that is more abrasive at lower temperatures. StopTech has found the Hawk 9012 (Hawk Blue) compound to be particularly effective in removing uneven pad deposits from rotors."

Pagid:
They just say: "We do not recommend using discs, which are pre-bedded, or have been used with friction material
other than PAGID."

EBC:
The mentioned "Again new Discs/rotors is the solution or a Pro Cut on car Brake lathe re alignment."
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Old 07-16-2015, 05:10 PM   #486
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From the stoptech website:

Quote:
The obvious question now is "is there a "cure" for discs with uneven friction material deposits?" The answer is a conditional yes. If the vibration has just started, the chances are that the temperature has never reached the point where cementite begins to form. In this case, simply fitting a set of good "semi-metallic" pads and using them hard (after bedding) may well remove the deposits and restore the system to normal operation but with upgraded pads. If only a small amount of material has been transferred i.e. if the vibration is just starting, vigorous scrubbing with garnet paper may remove the deposit. As many deposits are not visible, scrub the entire friction surfaces thoroughly. Do not use regular sand paper or emery cloth as the aluminum oxide abrasive material will permeate the cast iron surface and make the condition worse. Do not bead blast or sand blast the discs for the same reason.
Here:
-Warped- Brake Disc and Other Myths
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Old 07-16-2015, 05:48 PM   #487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazswing View Post
Stoptech:
StopTech has found the Hawk 9012 (Hawk Blue) compound to be particularly effective in removing uneven pad deposits from rotors."
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Old 07-16-2015, 06:59 PM   #488
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Ok, catching on here. Keeping "friction" as consistent as possible F-R, R-F allows for greater predictability in braking situations, increasing confidence and control over the vehicle which are huge components of going faster. While split compound bands/types can work, one is setting up the most ideal predictability via same compounds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OGRacing View Post
I hope you don’t mind me using your comment as an example.
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Old 07-16-2015, 07:31 PM   #489
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You also need to consider weight transfer. Under heavy braking the front brakes are placed under the most load. Using different F/R combinations allows for tuning the braking properties of the car it could be argued that a manual proportioning valve will do the same. However the valve only adjusts the pressure balance.

Since pads have different properties they can be matched to the situation then the proportioning valve adjusted to suit the combination. I see no issue with mixing pad types/brands it is a case of finding the right combination for the intended purpose.

In my situation if I used W5's all round the rear would lock up even earlier and make hard braking even harder as the fronts will not being used to their potential as the rears lockup too early. If I go W3's on the 4 corners the front rotors will get too hot and impact on the pads performance not to mention again the rears locking before the front. If I was using the car as a daily the W3's would be more than adequate as heat and heavy braking is not a big issue.

Using a full metallic race pad on a daily drive is not the right choice. Horses for courses.
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Old 07-16-2015, 07:34 PM   #490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OGRacing View Post
i got to see these things. post pics
<br />
<br /><br />
<br />I will when I get home. 1.6 rotors abused for a year with stop techs. 2 NA track days. 2 track days turbo. Last track day was on cobalts. Hoping the 1.8s up front hold on a bit better.
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Old 07-16-2015, 07:36 PM   #491
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I'm guessing then hardcore people swap pads and rotors for different tracks, say if one track calls for much more trail braking vs. more straighter line hard slow-down.

Well, this has given me great pause to think.

I really appreciate the tenor of the responses here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eipgam View Post
You also need to consider weight transfer. Under heavy braking the front brakes are placed under the most load. Using different F/R combinations allows for tuning the braking properties of the car it could be argued that a manual proportioning valve will do the same. However the valve only adjusts the pressure balance.

Since pads have different properties they can be matched to the situation then the proportioning valve adjusted to suit the combination. I see no issue with mixing pad types/brands it is a case of finding the right combination for the intended purpose.

In my situation if I used W5's all round the rear would lock up even earlier and make hard braking even harder as the fronts will not being used to their potential as the rears lockup too early. If I go W3's on the 4 corners the front rotors will get too hot and impact on the pads performance not to mention again the rears locking before the front. If I was using the car as a daily the W3's would be more than adequate as heat and heavy braking is not a big issue.

Using a full metallic race pad on a daily drive is not the right choice. Horses for courses.
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Old 07-17-2015, 12:06 AM   #492
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<p>Rotors actually look fine.</p><p><br /><br /></p>
Attached Thumbnails
Anyone have any brake questions?-jvxmiull.jpg   Anyone have any brake questions?-bfqfpjal.jpg   Anyone have any brake questions?-yptlmwtl.jpg  
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Old 07-17-2015, 11:19 AM   #493
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The reason I asked about the rotors is that preexisting wear patterns including edges with lips can cause uneven pressure that can crumble an edge of a pad off. If the new pads are 1-2mm outboard due to a wider pad profile, sitting in the caliper differently, or even using new calipers or slide pins can cause a slight change in alignment. Live with it if rotors aren't turned or replaced with new pads each time. It can happen.
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Old 07-19-2015, 03:06 PM   #494
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What seems like what would be an easy question to answer.

What is required and is it possible to swap 01+ Sport ABS brakes to an 00 Non-Sport Non ABS. Do you need the nuckle or just the calipers, carriers, rotors and lines? I have an entire 01 to source parts but am hoping to forgo swapping the knuckle.

Thank you, I did try searching buy apparently I'm not entering the proper key words.
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Old 07-19-2015, 04:06 PM   #495
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Old 07-19-2015, 04:15 PM   #496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpreston View Post

I'm sorry, I'm not looking to add the ABS unit just the calipers and rotors. I can see where adding the ABS would require the knuckle swap.
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Old 07-19-2015, 05:14 PM   #497
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Ok, you don't need knuckles for that. Just calipers, brackets, and rotors.
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Old 07-19-2015, 05:40 PM   #498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpreston View Post
Ok, you don't need knuckles for that. Just calipers, brackets, and rotors.
Thank you that is the answer I was hoping for.
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Old 07-20-2015, 02:15 AM   #499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alternative View Post
Thank you that is the answer I was hoping for.
You may want to consider the master cylinder and booster as well.

--Ian
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Old 07-20-2015, 10:36 AM   #500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazswing View Post
I'm guessing then hardcore people swap pads and rotors for different tracks, say if one track calls for much more trail braking vs. more straighter line hard slow-down.

Well, this has given me great pause to think.

I really appreciate the tenor of the responses here.
the real hardcore guys swap everything. The big nascar teams will build a car for each track. something like Bristol (lots of brakes used) they will spec out the biggest kit they can get their hands on. normally a 323mm rotor. for a track like daytona (never use the brakes except for pit lane) they will speck out a 299mm rotor and a tiny caliper to save weight.
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