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Old 02-13-2015, 11:50 AM   #301
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I guess it shows my novice understanding of a quality track pad at the time. In the subie world I was lead to believe that the HP+ would live up to the task of street and driving school track days.
The subie world also leads people to believe that their cars work on track. If they actually knew how to drive, they'd buy a car that knew how to turn. Looks like you fixed that issue
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Old 02-13-2015, 12:02 PM   #302
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I instructed a fellow with a 2012 WRX and HP+ recently and found them to be an adequate match for all-season tires, just as they seem to be for a n/a Miata with all-seasons. The problem is when you go to a turbo and/or R - compounds they are woefully inadequate.

I will say again that the Performance Friction PF01 pads from OG have performed admirably on the track (250whp, Hoosiers) and are very civilized on the street (quiet, work well cold, good rotor wear, reasonable dust levels ). They also required no special break-in and were priced right. Cobalt XR2 is an honorable mention as well but are more expensive and less linear.

Perhaps the right track pad could also serve duty on the street, if you wish.

Last edited by sixshooter; 02-13-2015 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 02-13-2015, 01:27 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by OGRacing View Post
i'm so proud of you guys. your really getting this


FYI i know emilio mentioned the dtc60/70 combo on the car. hawks pads are to inconsistent to use for this. if you ant to run hawks keep the compounds the same front to rear.
Yah. I was trying to be charitable to Hawk vendors since we're sort of stepping into your thread. But yes, it appears even the guys that really like DTC's run the same compound front and rear. In my experience that means compensating with mechanical or hydraulic advantage, either swapping calipers or rotor sizes.

FWIW, most of the SuperMiatas run OEM 10.6" Sport Brakes with their larger piston area up front, complete 94-00 rears. All but three are running XP10/8 I think. About 1/3rd of the cars have either a 929/626 1" master or the Wilwood tandem we offer. Only 1 with ABS AFAIK. That is sort of the PT developed config we have settled on as the most bang for the buck under about 170whp. My only gripe is Carbotech has not yet built a dedicated mold for the Sport front pad (890 plate) so it still uses rivets, thus giving up some useful pad life to a bonded version of the same compound. All the other Miata and Wilwood CT's are full bonded.
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Old 02-15-2015, 04:46 PM   #304
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Been out of the loop, but . . . .

I'm not going to get all techie (because I can't). But when I bought my Red car, it had Goodwin BBK's front and rear (11" + Dynalite front and the Goodwin bracket + 11" rear). Had all kinds of bias issues with that -- even with a cockpit adjustable prop valve. I finally put the rears back to OEM and it's been a huge improvement. Running XP10/XP8.

One of the weird things for me with the rear BBK is that I had dialed the bias so far forward that I couldn't get the rears bedded properly. Had uneven deposits and vibrations.

So, another data point for 11" front w/NA8 rear. Normally aspirated with 100TW R-Comps.

Who wants to buy a Goodwin rear BBK? Cheap?

Last edited by hornetball; 02-15-2015 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 02-15-2015, 05:48 PM   #305
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Thanks for sharing! I am really happy this thread exsists. Picked up parts from emilio on Friday. Found a good deal on 1.8 brackets on Amazon. Can't wait for spring to get here.
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Old 02-15-2015, 09:20 PM   #306
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Who wants to buy a Goodwin rear BBK? Cheap?
Those rotors/hats are the nicest on the market to pair with 11.75 fronts at current. Someone will want them.
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Old 02-16-2015, 09:13 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
Been out of the loop, but . . . .

I'm not going to get all techie (because I can't). But when I bought my Red car, it had Goodwin BBK's front and rear (11" + Dynalite front and the Goodwin bracket + 11" rear). Had all kinds of bias issues with that -- even with a cockpit adjustable prop valve. I finally put the rears back to OEM and it's been a huge improvement. Running XP10/XP8.

One of the weird things for me with the rear BBK is that I had dialed the bias so far forward that I couldn't get the rears bedded properly. Had uneven deposits and vibrations.

So, another data point for 11" front w/NA8 rear. Normally aspirated with 100TW R-Comps.

Who wants to buy a Goodwin rear BBK? Cheap?
it's not the Kit that's the problem. you had something else going on. I'm leaning towards contaminates.
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Old 02-16-2015, 09:53 AM   #308
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Well, I did what I could. Pads were new. Rotor was machined and then cleaned off with brake clean. Same process followed front and rear (no issues on the front). Same process followed on the OEM parts that were put back on (no issues). I'm done with that rear BBK.
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Old 02-16-2015, 12:15 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
Well, I did what I could. Pads were new. Rotor was machined and then cleaned off with brake clean. Same process followed front and rear (no issues on the front). Same process followed on the OEM parts that were put back on (no issues). I'm done with that rear BBK.
I would tend to agree with you. Even un bedded, XP8's take 1000+ to out gas and begin the final cure. On the street with a BBK, that can be a challenge give you're trying to bring them up to temp evenly and not burn hot spots in. Not enough bedding heat and the first time you womp them on track you'll pull some uncured material off the pad and stick it to the rotor where there is no transfer layer yet.

For bedding CT's, it's best to take your time building heat gradually. Once you think you have some good heat soak in all the hardware with some repeated decelerations, do max G decels until they fad and smoke. I'll do 2-3 hard decels during the fade/smoke then a cool down and park it. With practice, you'll have a nice shiny and even gray/blue transfer layer on the rotors. If spots on the rotor have no transfer layer, that means the pads might not have fully outgassed. Do over or spend some more time seating the pads to create a more complete mating surface then attempt bedding again.
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Old 02-16-2015, 02:49 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
I would tend to agree with you. Even un bedded, XP8's take 1000+ to out gas and begin the final cure. On the street with a BBK, that can be a challenge give you're trying to bring them up to temp evenly and not burn hot spots in. Not enough bedding heat and the first time you womp them on track you'll pull some uncured material off the pad and stick it to the rotor where there is no transfer layer yet.

For bedding CT's, it's best to take your time building heat gradually. Once you think you have some good heat soak in all the hardware with some repeated decelerations, do max G decels until they fad and smoke. I'll do 2-3 hard decels during the fade/smoke then a cool down and park it. With practice, you'll have a nice shiny and even gray/blue transfer layer on the rotors. If spots on the rotor have no transfer layer, that means the pads might not have fully outgassed. Do over or spend some more time seating the pads to create a more complete mating surface then attempt bedding again.
That beading procedure sounds like a real pita.
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Old 02-16-2015, 03:26 PM   #311
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That beading procedure sounds like a real pita.
Pretty normal, just can't be skipped on the XP's. Less of an issue on rotors that already have a transfer layer.
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Old 02-16-2015, 03:59 PM   #312
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Pretty normal, just can't be skipped on the XP's. Less of an issue on rotors that already have a transfer layer.
People call me asking for the bead in procedure on PFC's all the time. i say go to turn 1, hit the brakes, transfer layer achieved.
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Old 02-23-2015, 07:56 PM   #313
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Why is this thread in General Miata Chat instead of Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain?

Before my next trackday in April I need to put new pads on the rear. I have MSM so therefore sport brakes and shitty pad selection. Currently running Hawk DTC60 with the backing plates filed to fit. While I would consider a switch to PFC, Carbotech is out due to my being an idiot and will **** up the bedding procedure. PFC, like Hawk, does not offer decent track pads for sport brakes. So I have some options

1) File the pad backing plate to fit sport brackets. Every pad change, which admittedly is like every 2 years. If I continue this path I need to stop being a retard and pick up an extra set of pads and pre-file them so they can be swapped out quickly and easily at the track if needed. A smart man would keep extra pads. always.

2) File the sport brackets to allow for non-sport pad installation. One and done. Never have to file anything ever again. I'm assuming this is a viable option. Have not compared the sport vs non-sport brackets side by side.

3) Install M-Tuned + standard 1.8 brackets. Costs ~$100+shipping for the M-Tuned brackets, already have a set of 1.8 brackets in the garage. By far the cleanest solution but I'd rather spend that $100 on other parts. Only need 19 more $100 bills before a set of Xidas can come my way.


I like the cost of option 1/2 the best, and the results of option 3 the best. What say you brake experts. 1, 2, or 3?
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Old 02-24-2015, 08:45 AM   #314
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Why is this thread in General Miata Chat instead of Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain?

Before my next trackday in April I need to put new pads on the rear. I have MSM so therefore sport brakes and shitty pad selection. Currently running Hawk DTC60 with the backing plates filed to fit. While I would consider a switch to PFC, Carbotech is out due to my being an idiot and will **** up the bedding procedure. PFC, like Hawk, does not offer decent track pads for sport brakes. So I have some options

1) File the pad backing plate to fit sport brackets. Every pad change, which admittedly is like every 2 years. If I continue this path I need to stop being a retard and pick up an extra set of pads and pre-file them so they can be swapped out quickly and easily at the track if needed. A smart man would keep extra pads. always.

2) File the sport brackets to allow for non-sport pad installation. One and done. Never have to file anything ever again. I'm assuming this is a viable option. Have not compared the sport vs non-sport brackets side by side.

3) Install M-Tuned + standard 1.8 brackets. Costs ~$100+shipping for the M-Tuned brackets, already have a set of 1.8 brackets in the garage. By far the cleanest solution but I'd rather spend that $100 on other parts. Only need 19 more $100 bills before a set of Xidas can come my way.


I like the cost of option 1/2 the best, and the results of option 3 the best. What say you brake experts. 1, 2, or 3?
1
it's not uncommon to have teams File the backing plates. it happens a lot with making bridge bolt calipers work with non bridge bolt pads. Do use a file to do this, and not a grinder. the vibrations from the grinder could damage the brittle nature of any race pad. if you where staying on a budget that would be the one i would choose. after that i would recommend just swapping out to a v8 roadsters front kit, and 1.8l rear caliper + sport rotor kit.
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Old 02-24-2015, 01:53 PM   #315
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v8 roadsters front kit,.
Or the 949 Racing kit (same kit but one is a forum sponsor).
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Old 02-24-2015, 01:58 PM   #316
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Or the 949 Racing kit (same kit but one is a forum sponsor).
949 is using the dynapro and not the dynalite?
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Old 02-24-2015, 02:49 PM   #317
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Or the 949 Racing kit (same kit but one is a forum sponsor).
that too, or track speed.

I recommend V8 roadsters because i have first hand experience with their customer service. I know anyone i recommend to them will be taken care of. I haven't had the fortune of working with 949 racing yet.
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Old 02-24-2015, 03:07 PM   #318
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949 is using the dynapro and not the dynalite?
You can get either. I just ordered an 11" kit from them with the dynalites (after a few emails back and forth about the dynapro's).
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Old 02-25-2015, 12:18 AM   #319
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Already have the TSE 11.75" front kit. Bought that after badly tapering a set of pads in a day at Hallett. Andrew was awesome about shipping the kit 2-day for a very reasonable price so I didn't miss out on a track day the following weekend. At the time, the 949 11.75" kit didn't exist. No experience with V8 Roadster, but TSE customer service is absolutely fantastic. Savington is an awesomely helpful dude.

Thanks for the tip about not using a grinder. Current set were filed but I was likely going to grind the next set due to laziness. A file will be used instead. I believe the sport and 1.8 calipers are identical and only the bracket + rotor changes, I'll need to confirm prior to any M-Tuned brack purchases. Only hit a handful of track weekends each year and the pads hold up well enough that I'll probably stick to filing the backing plates and save the $100 for something else.
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Old 02-25-2015, 12:02 PM   #320
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Already have the TSE 11.75" front kit. Bought that after badly tapering a set of pads in a day at Hallett. Andrew was awesome about shipping the kit 2-day for a very reasonable price so I didn't miss out on a track day the following weekend. At the time, the 949 11.75" kit didn't exist. No experience with V8 Roadster, but TSE customer service is absolutely fantastic. Savington is an awesomely helpful dude.

Thanks for the tip about not using a grinder. Current set were filed but I was likely going to grind the next set due to laziness. A file will be used instead. I believe the sport and 1.8 calipers are identical and only the bracket + rotor changes, I'll need to confirm prior to any M-Tuned brack purchases. Only hit a handful of track weekends each year and the pads hold up well enough that I'll probably stick to filing the backing plates and save the $100 for something else.
the piston sizes on the sport calipers is a little larger. but do check out the PFC's if you don't like them OG will buy you a set of hawks. the offer goes for padgid too, but i don't think padgid makes anything for 1.6-1.8 miatas.
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