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Old 02-12-2015, 07:07 PM   #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ofspunk7 View Post
Yeah I will use them only for street. I will have track dedicated pads. That is how I ran my subie and that is how I plan to run my Miata.


Wilwood Dynapro 4-piston calipers and Wilwood BP-10 pads front
Porterfield R4-S rear brake pads
two-piece 11" slotted Spec-37 front rotors
one-piece 11" slotted rear rotors
stainless braided lines front and rear
FM proportioning valve kit (not on 2001-05 ABS kits)
I am confused. Where did I say I plan to use these pads for track. I stated that I plan to run track dedicated pads when I run track. Not stated but suggesting that I will buy better track pads.

How is the FM kit i have listed different than any other BBK that uses a stock caliper in the rear? Beside the rotor which 949 and goodwin have their own versions? Just the pads, which will see street use? Maybe slight variations of rear brackets... But I swear that other BBK that i saw on goodwin and 949 also put the stock caliper on an 11" rotor. (Looking at $1k to $1.5k BBK kits)

What am i missing?
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Old 02-12-2015, 07:19 PM   #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ofspunk7 View Post
I am confused. Where did I say I plan to use these pads for track. I stated that I plan to run track dedicated pads when I run track. Not stated but suggesting that I will buy better track pads.

How is the FM kit i have listed different than any other BBK that uses a stock caliper in the rear? Beside the rotor which 949 and goodwin have their own versions? Just the pads, which will see street use? Maybe slight variations of rear brackets... But I swear that other BBK that i saw on goodwin and 949 also put the stock caliper on an 11" rotor. (Looking at $1k to $1.5k BBK kits)

What am i missing?
Brake bias, He's saying with the piston sizes using a sport rotor in the back with an 11" front wilwood kit is bad news bears. Yeah you can get the braking bias correct durning threshold braking with a prop valve but it'll never be right under trail braking.
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Old 02-12-2015, 07:37 PM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Brake bias, He's saying with the piston sizes using a sport rotor in the back with an 11" front wilwood kit is bad news bears. Yeah you can get the braking bias correct durning threshold braking with a prop valve but it'll never be right under trail braking.
This.

It appears ofspunk7 is running NA6/NA8 (same) rear calipers. With those and the piston area of the smallest DP4, which I believe is what FM is using, you want to have a rotor diameter stagger to avoid needing to bandaid bias tuning with a full close prop valve and big pad .mu delta.

In short, we suggest the 10.9" Sport rear rotor diameter only with 11.75 fronts. For cars under about 220whp or street tires, we like the 11 front, 9.9" (NA8) rear. We ran the 11/11 for along time but never got it really dialed. The best we got the 11/11 to work was with XP12 front/ XP8 rear. 1" master and ABS on Crusher. We won a few national titles with that car but relied heavily on ABS and had to have lots of heat in the brakes for them to balance properly. Never quite perfect though. Others (TSE) had been running the 11.75/10.9 setup for a few years prior. I had to drive a car with that setup a few years ago to see the light (thanks Trey).

In short 11.75/10.9 or 11.0/9.9 is what we have found to work well.
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Old 02-12-2015, 08:09 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
In short 11.75/10.9 or 11.0/9.9 is what we have found to work well.
As he said, when I went to the 11.75 from the 11.0 I also needed to upgrade the rears to 10.9 from 9.9 to balance the car.
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Old 02-12-2015, 10:26 PM   #285
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Awesome, thank you both for taking the time to educate me. I guess it is back to the drawing boards to do some more research and find a good package for spring.
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Old 02-12-2015, 10:42 PM   #286
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oops, sorry. Missed the bit about dedicated pads. Anyhow, it sounds like you are on top of it.
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Old 02-12-2015, 10:47 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
oops, sorry. Missed the bit about dedicated pads. Anyhow, it sounds like you are on top of it.
I am not sure that I am. So I am 100% about taking your advice as you guys have lots and lots of seat time in these cars with multiple brake setups. I have a long (long, long) ways to go before I am pushing the limits of my car around the track.

So looking for 11" fronts and 9.9 (or 10" rears) I have found that FM, Goodwin and yourself (949) do not actually offer a kit like this. What (I am guessing obvious) am I missing about the rear brakes? I believe the 1.8's ran 10" brakes stock??? So seeing as how I have a 1.6 am I just looking for a bracket and then tossing the 9.9 (or 10" rotors on)? Then separately buying someone's BBK for the fronts only?

I have 15x8 Konig Wide Opens, so 11" front is as large as I believe I can go.

Again thanks for taking the time to help


EDIT: ok I think you already answered this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
For cars under about 220whp or street tires, we like the 11 front, 9.9" (NA8) rear.
^ I am correct to assume I need a different bracket for running the 1.8 rears with 10" rotors?
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Old 02-12-2015, 11:16 PM   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ofspunk7 View Post
^ I am correct to assume I need a different bracket for running the 1.8 rears with 10" rotors?
M-Tuned Rear kit
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Old 02-12-2015, 11:20 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by midpack View Post
Yeah I saw that when I checked his site. However, I read this under that bracket.

"Rear kit allows you to install 10.84" Miata factory Sport Brake Rotors to replace the OEM Miata 9.89" rotors."


Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
For cars under about 220whp or street tires, we like the 11 front, 9.9" (NA8) rear.
So I was under the impression that I should be looking for something to run the OEM 1.8 9.9" rotors. Not an upgrade for 11".... again I could be missing something
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Old 02-13-2015, 07:26 AM   #290
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Spunk, you're missing that he's saying literally use stock 1.8 non-sport brakes in the rear. No kit or anything that you cant get from the wrecking yard or rock auto (besides pads).
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Old 02-13-2015, 07:52 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
This.

It appears ofspunk7 is running NA6/NA8 (same) rear calipers. With those and the piston area of the smallest DP4, which I believe is what FM is using, you want to have a rotor diameter stagger to avoid needing to bandaid bias tuning with a full close prop valve and big pad .mu delta.

In short, we suggest the 10.9" Sport rear rotor diameter only with 11.75 fronts. For cars under about 220whp or street tires, we like the 11 front, 9.9" (NA8) rear. We ran the 11/11 for along time but never got it really dialed. The best we got the 11/11 to work was with XP12 front/ XP8 rear. 1" master and ABS on Crusher. We won a few national titles with that car but relied heavily on ABS and had to have lots of heat in the brakes for them to balance properly. Never quite perfect though. Others (TSE) had been running the 11.75/10.9 setup for a few years prior. I had to drive a car with that setup a few years ago to see the light (thanks Trey).

In short 11.75/10.9 or 11.0/9.9 is what we have found to work well.
It would be really helpful if this bit about front/rear rotor size was on your website.
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Old 02-13-2015, 09:43 AM   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Spunk, you're missing that he's saying literally use stock 1.8 non-sport brakes in the rear. No kit or anything that you cant get from the wrecking yard or rock auto (besides pads).
Yeah I was understanding the 1.8 part. I guess my question wasn't clear enough. What is required to swap 1.8 rears (stock) to my 1.6 rear. Is it really as simple as just buying 1.8 rotors? IIRC the 1.8 caliper and 1.6 caliper are the same. So do I require a bracket as well for the larger rotor but keep my 1.6 caliper + a 1.8 bracket.
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Old 02-13-2015, 10:12 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by ofspunk7 View Post
Yeah I was understanding the 1.8 part. I guess my question wasn't clear enough. What is required to swap 1.8 rears (stock) to my 1.6 rear. Is it really as simple as just buying 1.8 rotors? IIRC the 1.8 caliper and 1.6 caliper are the same. So do I require a bracket as well for the larger rotor but keep my 1.6 caliper + a 1.8 bracket.
The 1.8 bracket will space your 1.6 caliper out farther radially, so it'll fit over the 1.8 rotors.
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Old 02-13-2015, 10:28 AM   #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
...In short 11.75/10.9 or 11.0/9.9 is what we have found to work well.
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Anyone have any brake questions?-886869e438060b954dcf19c24a946a0ebf49a26536f5ce447a8063fd7035285a.jpg  
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Old 02-13-2015, 11:05 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
As he said, when I went to the 11.75 from the 11.0 I also needed to upgrade the rears to 10.9 from 9.9 to balance the car.
i'm so proud of you guys. your really getting this


FYI i know emilio mentioned the dtc60/70 combo on the car. hawks pads are to inconsistent to use for this. if you want to run hawks keep the compounds the same front to rear.

Last edited by OGRacing; 02-13-2015 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 02-13-2015, 11:11 AM   #296
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On my WRX I actaully had some Hawk HP+ pads crumble to junk after some DD and driving schools. There was a ton of pad left, but the ends of the pads really just went to crap. This car was a DD in the winter, so hense the crappy looking pads.

Either way, I won't buy hawk again.






Lots of life left
















Attached Thumbnails
Anyone have any brake questions?-img_20130823_095606_835_zpsa1369356.jpg   Anyone have any brake questions?-img_20130823_095832_017_zps91ffa804.jpg   Anyone have any brake questions?-img_20130823_095933_041_zps0e0f3cd8.jpg   Anyone have any brake questions?-img_20130823_095919_931_zps9332a6af.jpg   Anyone have any brake questions?-img_20130823_095916_415_zpsad654d02.jpg  

Anyone have any brake questions?-img_20130823_095854_520_zps6b5a5736.jpg   Anyone have any brake questions?-img_20130823_095837_853_zps84eaadb2.jpg   Anyone have any brake questions?-img_20130823_095832_017_zps717e14b4.jpg   Anyone have any brake questions?-img_20130823_095744_072_zps1e7bb408.jpg   Anyone have any brake questions?-img_20130823_095714_867_zps25667a58.jpg  

Anyone have any brake questions?-img_20130823_095632_661_zpsde351be6.jpg  
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Old 02-13-2015, 11:28 AM   #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ofspunk7 View Post
On my WRX I actaully had some Hawk HP+ pads crumble to junk after some DD and driving schools. There was a ton of pad left, but the ends of the pads really just went to crap. This car was a DD in the winter, so hense the crappy looking pads.

Either way, I won't buy hawk again.
Kind of odd logic there. You used a street pad (HP+) on a race track (driving schools) and the pad edges overheated and crumbled. Pretty much exactly what I would expect to happen.
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Old 02-13-2015, 11:31 AM   #298
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^ most "race pads" have a very high iron content. That glycol-crap the states are spraying on the roads eats that iron up. so pull those high performance pads in the fall and replace them with el cheapo's for the winter.
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Old 02-13-2015, 11:32 AM   #299
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Kind of odd logic there. You used a street pad (HP+) on a race track (driving schools) and the pad edges overheated and crumbled. Pretty much exactly what I would expect to happen.
I guess it shows my novice understanding of a quality track pad at the time. In the subie world I was lead to believe that the HP+ would live up to the task of street and driving school track days.

Per their website - LINK
"Hawk Performance’s HP Plus brake pad compound is ideal for Autocross and Track Day drivers looking for a high performance race compound that can take the heat of the track and get you home safely without having to change the pads."


Quote:
Originally Posted by OGRacing View Post
^ most "race pads" have a very high iron content. That glycol-crap the states are spraying on the roads eats that iron up. so pull those high performance pads in the fall and replace them with el cheapo's for the winter.

That won't be an issue now. The miata is summer only. The DD (Ford Edge) can deal with the cancer winter roads.
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Old 02-13-2015, 11:36 AM   #300
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i had street pads explained to me this way. they need to work in the cold, they need to work in the hot, the need to work at the highest peaks and the lowest valleys, no dust, no squeal, don't cause cancer,and last 50,000 miles.
race pads just have to be constant at 200-1600*
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