cueball1

iTrader: (13)

Watching this thread anxiously.

I've got the bell system that comes with the turbo kit that started this thread. Takes forever to warm up when it's cold out. Hoping there is a nice clean solution, a mechanical moron like me can accomplish, before I give up and swap the line to the rad outlet.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

Well, it's more Shaik's idea than mine, but yes, that appears to be consistent with the general concept and, if the oil thermostat works the way we expect, should be the "most optimal" configuration.

JasonC SBB

Hey I was the one that told Shaikh what to do

cueball1

iTrader: (13)

Ok. BEGI reroute for dummies here. I've got the too cold BEGI system in my dd car. It takes forever to warm up now that it's winter. BEGI is sending me another T to move the heater return to the rad outlet. The idea proposed here is a temp sensing diverter valve could be put into the system to run cold return water to the outlet, hot return water to the inlet.

I'd love to do this! It's simple and wouldn't involve much mechanical work like freeze plugs, moving thermostats, etc. Would the oil diverters mentioned earlier work in this sort of application?

Can you tell I'm enjoy being spoon fed and simple solutions?!?

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

yeah Tom's idea of the oil cooler thermostat is full of win.

hustler

iTrader: (6)

I agree with this. If Texas weren't tropical, I'd do this **** too.

cueball1

iTrader: (13)

So with the oil cooler thermostat as a diversion valve, I wouldn't be looking to move the engine thermostat to the rear, no plugs, no drilling holes for flow, etc. I'd simply use the existing standard BEGI reroute but add a diverter valve/oil cooler therm to the heater return line.

Would there be a significant reason to go farther than this and do the rear thermostat/ blocked front type mods or is this likely more than good enough if I'm not running at WOT for hours on end?

Then there is the question of brand. Permacool is around $40. Mocal is $100. Worth the extra $60? Try cheap to see if it works and replace it later with quality if it doesn't hold up?

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

Ok, fine.

Shaikh's oil thermostat idea, which he got from Jason, which he received in the form of a vision from a talking Space Coyote standing atop an Aztec pyramid after consuming a bowl of chili made from the Merciless Peppers of Quetzlzacatenango (grown deep in the jungle primeval by the inmates of a Guatemalan insane asylum), is pretty damn optimal.

Are we all happy?

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

Said configuration being functionally identical to just leaving the heater return connected to the mixing manifold in the first place.

Yes.

It is unknown whether they retain their diversion characteristic when dealing with an extremely low viscosity fluid (water), however apart from that uncertainty, yes.

Ideally, the thermostat should still be relocated to the back of the head. The purpose in doing this is to increase the volume of water flowing all the way through the engine when it is at operating temperature. With the thermostat in the front, it diverts a lot of coolant away from the engine, which is the primary reason that the back of the engine tends to run hot in the Miata environment.

See above.

Don't you love being a pioneer? The rest of us will learn from your experiance.

cueball1

iTrader: (13)

As soon as BEGI get's me the T fitting I'm gonna try it. I'm going Permacool and cheaping out at 1st. We'll see if it's the cat's meow as it seems it should be. 20gpm flow through seem like enough?

james399

iTrader: (12)

Hey Joe,

thanks for answering my questions... now I have a few more, and my searching isn't conclusive....

I'm not sure if I am getting this, I am not running boost yet, and want to have the coolant reroute and the swap running smoothly before turbo....

on the stock coolant configuration, the thermostat housing on the front, there is a large outlet that connects to the upper radiator hose, and smaller outlet which connects via rubber tube, that runs to the intake manifold, and to the oil filter housing and then to the back of the engine (now is the back of the engine the mixing manifold?)

if i do a coolant reroute, and move the t-stat housing using a jr spacer to the rear, should i have the little outlet tube connect to the same spot in the rear, is it ok, if i don't have coolant running through the intake manifold or the oil filter housing?

and i'm down here in sunny california, where it rarely ever gets below 60,

so, if this seems crazy please let me know..
1. use freeze plug to block original t-stat outlet in the front.
2. plug the intake manifold and oil filter housing inlet outlets,
3. use the jr spacer to run to the heater inlet,pre thermostat
4. connect heater outlet to the smaller inlet on the water pump
5. connect the large outlet (using the stock t-stat housing on the back of the engine) to the upper radiator hose...
6. connect little outlet from tstat housing to the rear of the motor

i understand that this will not be optimal, as i will still be mixing warm coolant from the heater outlet just before it goes into the engine,

but it should overall be an improvement than the stock set up right?
and it will allow decent warmup time no?

cueball1

iTrader: (13)

Got my $42 Perma-cool oil thermostat from Summit today - jeez, I just ordered in Monday! Waiting on the new connector pipe for the rad outlet from BEGI. I'll let everyone know what happens when it's all hooked up.

If that helps I'll be thinking about doing the rear thermostat mod next.

james399

iTrader: (12)

ok, i did a lot more reading, and how bout this...

- i wanna plug the front with a freeze plug

- the inlet and outlet on the intake manifold is to heat air in case the condensation in the air freezes as it enters the intake... so being that i'm in cali, i don't have to worry about that and can leave that plugged.

- i was looking at the mazda protege 323 turbo setup, and figured, i should mimic that...
that being said:
the outlet at the rear of the engine that runs to the oil cooler - intake manifold - thermostat cover on the front of the engine on the turbo engine has a double outlet instead of a single outlet,
1 goes to the heater core and the other outlet goes to oil ->intake -> thermostat cover...

so... do you guys think it will be a good idea to get a splitter of some kind, and route one line to the oil cooler and the other line to the heater, and plumb them both in to the upper radiator somewhere after the t-stat? this would allow continual cycling of water, without having to drill or tap the head and or use a spacer... and it will allow for continued use of the heater as well...

whatdya guys think?

or, if you want to eliminate the heater altogether, plug the heater core, and just plum the oil cooler bck into the upper radiator hose after the tstat, and that will continue cycling of water...

i live in so-cal, so the coldest it gets is about 50 degrees.

-j

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

Win.


Win.


Lose.

Returning the exhaust product of the heater core and the oil cooler to the upper radiator hose will cause all of that water to flow through the radiator even when the thermostat is closed. This will cause delayed warmup and possible over-cooling.

In keeping with your theme of replicating the 323GTX design, these two feeds should be returned to the lower radiator hose. The heater can be effectively placed into this configuration by leaving its outlet exactly as stock, with the rigid metal pipe feeding into the mixing manifold. The oil cooler can be returned to the upright-facing nipple on the mixing manifold to which the hose coming from the thermostat housing is normally attached.

NA6C-Guy

iTrader: (1)

Dont you love their speedy shipping. Same with Jegs.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

patsmx5

iTrader: (16)

I love your avatar. I gotta get some of those made for work.

JasonC SBB

If you already have the coolant reroute, what is the point in using a diverter on the outlet of the heater (such that it dumps into the radiator outlet when cold, radiator inlet when warm)? Why not just progressively block the heater outlet the warmer it gets?

(Assuming you have a reroute...) If you dump the heater outlet into the radiator inlet when warm, what you are doing is effectively letting coolant out both ends of the head, instead of just the rear, which is more optimal. It's more optimal because the rear has the hottest coolant.

Obsidian

It's amusing as I was just talking with Stephanie the other day about this and was thinking of something alone similar lines to what has been mentioned here. She's actually the one who sent me this link as well...

Brgracer's diagram: was exactly what I was thinking of doing. Like him before me I also wonder how the 5/10% pass-through when using coolant vs oil would pan out. I was curious if anyone ever came up with a definitive answer? I was browsing through the thread but didn't see anyone actually answer it. (I apologize in advance if I simply overlooked it.)

I'd much rather use a thermostat to adjust the flow automatically, but I figure worse case scenario is I can always just use a T diverter valve and manually switch it back and forth between cold/hot weather modes...

cueball1

iTrader: (13)

You didn't see it because we don't know yet! I'm waiting for my lower radiator hose T from BEGI to give it a try. I've got the oil therm sitting here ready to go. I would guess the viscosity difference shouldn't make a great deal of difference in flow through but that's just a wild guess on my part. Smarter people here than me have wondered about that also (joe perez for example). Until it's hooked up and working (or not) we won't really know.