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Old 11-23-2015, 07:46 PM   #101
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So if you cooled it, would you still need the unicorn tear oil? Or could you just use normal engine oil at that point?

--Ian
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Old 11-23-2015, 07:48 PM   #102
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Quote:
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So if you cooled it, would you still need the unicorn tear oil? Or could you just use normal engine oil at that point?

--Ian
I don't know to be honest. My guess is you're on to something/right, with cooling it wouldn't be needed. Not something I had thought about. Good point!
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Old 11-26-2015, 01:27 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
... I'd agree you definitely should make more power. ...
You was right. I did some testing today, found two big problems with the setup that explains both the low power and high duty cycles. Sucks cause I gotta do some redesigning to fix it, but should help get the power up.
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Old 11-26-2015, 02:43 AM   #104
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Do tell
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Old 11-26-2015, 03:03 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
Do tell
My SC inlet is too small restricting airflow into the SC at high RPM, and my idea of installing a second intercooler to knock down air temps (which it did do very well) turned out to be a huge restriction when I swapped to the 2.59:1 pulley ratio. Now trying to figure out how to put a pair of 75mm throttle bodies on the back of this thing and still be able to shut the hood. I was showing 37.4 PSI boost at the outlet of the SC despite the vacuum it's pulling on the 3" throttle setup.







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What to fix on my Fuel System?-secondary%2520map_intake%2520plenum_zpsfzrm9ptk.png   What to fix on my Fuel System?-secondary%2520map_sc%2520inlet_zpsvvrinfde.png   What to fix on my Fuel System?-secondary%2520map_sc%2520outlet_zpsafjxpidl.png   What to fix on my Fuel System?-secondary%2520map_post%2520intercooler%25201_zpsxbfd2ymk.png  
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Old 11-26-2015, 03:13 AM   #106
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Basically I'm thinking about doing this, which would require me to remote mount the resevoir for the brake master cylinder to gain the needed clearance. And of course more damn sheet metal fab, which I don't like at all.

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Old 11-26-2015, 03:18 AM   #107
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Get a wilwood dual master with the remote mount reservoirs. Or dual masters like Madjak.
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Old 11-26-2015, 03:22 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
Get a wilwood dual master with the remote mount reservoirs. Or dual masters like Madjak.
Link? Are you talking about a bolt-in solution, or something totally custom?
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Old 11-26-2015, 03:36 AM   #109
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Bolt in wilwood: Miata Race Master Cylinder kit

Non bolt in Madjak style: https://www.miataturbo.net/suspensio...-delete-86683/

Ex. Install

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What to fix on my Fuel System?-80-ivancollins_bd_47cbe5cef8c6003ce56c38d789f3938737097365.jpg   What to fix on my Fuel System?-80-ivancollins_bd_47cbe5cef8c6003ce56c38d789f3938737097365.jpg  

Last edited by aidandj; 11-26-2015 at 03:48 AM.
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Old 11-26-2015, 03:55 AM   #110
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I'm just finishing the dual master setup tonight so I can give you some feedback on it soon. If you ran the wilwood short masters you'd have heaps of room even without remote reservoirs.

I'm also making a booster delete mounting plate that keeps the stock tandem master, but looses the booster. It would move the master back enough for you to clear the ducting. The idea is to lift the master cylinder up 20-30mm so you can run a 6:1 pedal ratio instead of the stock 4:1. I haven't tested it but if you are keen I could send you the CAD if want to give it a shot. There are far less mods to the stock pedal box than my dual master setup, it just needs some material removed so the master cylinder doesn't hit the frame and a new hole in the pedal. It will also need a lengthened pushrod but that's pretty easy.

This is a street car though so I'm not 100% sure if removing the booster is a great idea. On the track no booster is fine, but when in traffic I could see it being too hard to live with. I'm also not sure if moving to a 6:1 pedal will induce too much travel... I run Ferodo pads which are like rocks so I have very little pedal travel as it is.

Awesome car btw...
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Old 11-26-2015, 03:39 PM   #111
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I'm not sure how you are running out of fuel. I'm making close to 100 more HP than you are with a Whipple supercharger, 1000cc injectors, one intercooler, one 75mm throttle body and a single fuel pump.

I have said it before and I will continue to say it, you need to get the car on a dyno. You have spent thousands of dollars which could have been saved by spending a few hundred dollars on a real dyno.
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Old 11-26-2015, 04:01 PM   #112
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And this is the Supercharger oil you should be running (if you aren't already)

JB Performance Supercharger Oil with Tribodyn, 8 ounces JB Performance Supercharger Oil with Tribodyn [JBP SCO-8] - $19.99 : Jon Bond Performance, The Worlds Premier Supercharger Rebuilder and Parts Store

Overfilling a Whipple with oil is one of the top 3 causes of bearing and seal failure due to the excess heat.

I saw close to a 60 degree reduction in SC case temps when I switched from Whipple oil to Jon Bond's oil.
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Old 11-26-2015, 04:24 PM   #113
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The car may be choking and that may be killing power, but it still doesn't explain the fueling issue, because if anything that should be causing you to use a lot less fuel. flow = power = fuel
.....unless the choking is putting so much more drag onto the sc/pulley system that it's robbing like 200hp from the crank

and I kinda agree with TNTuba - this setup is becoming tremendously overcomplicated when the whole point (if I remember your 1st sc build post) of this setup was simplicity and reliability. stuff is just just not adding up.

the testing of new stuff is kinda interesting to read/watch though
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Old 11-26-2015, 06:48 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNTUBA View Post
I'm not sure how you are running out of fuel. I'm making close to 100 more HP than you are with a Whipple supercharger, 1000cc injectors, one intercooler, one 75mm throttle body and a single fuel pump.

I have said it before and I will continue to say it, you need to get the car on a dyno. You have spent thousands of dollars which could have been saved by spending a few hundred dollars on a real dyno.
Eric, I'm going to get it on a dyno. But you and I can both agree, if I'm 100hp shy of where I should be, that's pretty obvious that something is way off. I believe I now know what the problem(s) were, and am working on fixing it right now. Remaking the cold side intercooler pipe right now, should be driving it tonight.

I believe I have my SC pullied up higher than you do, I'm running a 2.59:1 ratio.

If you'd be willing to answer a few tuning questions I'd love to ask you a few.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNTUBA View Post
And this is the Supercharger oil you should be running (if you aren't already)

JB Performance Supercharger Oil with Tribodyn, 8 ounces JB Performance Supercharger Oil with Tribodyn [JBP SCO-8] - $19.99 : Jon Bond Performance, The Worlds Premier Supercharger Rebuilder and Parts Store

Overfilling a Whipple with oil is one of the top 3 causes of bearing and seal failure due to the excess heat.

I saw close to a 60 degree reduction in SC case temps when I switched from Whipple oil to Jon Bond's oil.
Eric, thanks A TON for mentioning that. I will order some for sure. I've heard of it, but wasn't sure if it was really better or not. What are your oil case temps now over ambient? How high do you fill your SC on the sight glass?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
The car may be choking and that may be killing power, but it still doesn't explain the fueling issue, because if anything that should be causing you to use a lot less fuel. flow = power = fuel
.....unless the choking is putting so much more drag onto the sc/pulley system that it's robbing like 200hp from the crank

and I kinda agree with TNTuba - this setup is becoming tremendously overcomplicated when the whole point (if I remember your 1st sc build post) of this setup was simplicity and reliability. stuff is just just not adding up.

the testing of new stuff is kinda interesting to read/watch though
Like I said, I measured 37 PSI boost at the SC outlet when it made 25-26 PSI at the plenum, while at 84 kPa on the SC inlet. No doubt the SC was taking huge power to do that, that's a 4.something pressure ratio... Fixing the intercooler stuff right now.

I don't think it's tremendously overcomplicated just yet. The second IC was complicated, but it's laying on the carport now as that was a failure. Otherwise I don't think anything on the SC setup is really complicated? But yes I do want simple/reliable, that makes the car fun to drive when you can actually drive it.
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Old 11-26-2015, 08:36 PM   #115
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I'll gladly help you.

I run a ATI lower pulley and a 67mm upper pulley, I spin my motor 8,000 RPM. I use a single Walbro 255lph HP pump and ID 1000cc injectors. Up until this week I was running the stock 5/16ths Fuel line.

Here's my timing Map:


Here's my VE Table
Attached Thumbnails
What to fix on my Fuel System?-timing%2520map%2520-%2520whipple_zpszwm85abq.png   What to fix on my Fuel System?-ve%2520table%2520whipple_zpsmpfkjwkb.png  
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Old 11-26-2015, 08:44 PM   #116
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And since everything is getting changed for next year. I'll do something I have NEVER done before.

Here is an old dyno graph....

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Old 11-26-2015, 11:53 PM   #117
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Wow that is really cool of you to share since you've been keeping it such a strict secret for so long.

Wish I can +prop those posts
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Old 11-26-2015, 11:58 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Wow that is really cool of you to share since you've been keeping it such a strict secret for so long.

Wish I can +prop those posts
Well.....it is an outdated dyno graph.....but still
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Old 11-27-2015, 02:57 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNTUBA View Post
I'll gladly help you.

I run a ATI lower pulley and a 67mm upper pulley, I spin my motor 8,000 RPM. I use a single Walbro 255lph HP pump and ID 1000cc injectors. Up until this week I was running the stock 5/16ths Fuel line.

Here's my timing Map:


Here's my VE Table
Eric,

Thanks for the info and help! One thing, I believe you are on C16, right? I'm on E85, so I think I'm gonna be spraying more of it to make the same power since E85's takes more of it. Do you know what duty cycle you are at on your setup? And what fuel pressure? I run ID 1000's at 60 PSI with a 1:1 regulator.


I got rid of the mess that was intercooler 2, and now have a 1 piece pipe that goes from the intercooler exit to the dummy TB.

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Old 11-27-2015, 07:51 AM   #120
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I honestly have no idea on the pressure. I was actually still using the stock NA Fuel pressure regulator. So what ever that worked out to.

I'll need to search through my email but I should have the data log from the dyno pull I posted earlier.

Yea, I am on C16 but David made similar power to my setup on E85 with basically the same fuel system I have.

It is important to note that the dyno graph I posted was from DIYAutoTune's dyno which has shown to read @ 11% - 13% more conservative than a "EgoJet" with the same car on the same day.
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