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Old 06-29-2007, 02:08 AM   #1
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Default Wideband shoot out

Interesting read ... take it for what it's worth.

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2...tout/index.php
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Old 06-29-2007, 02:24 AM   #2
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Hooray for having only ever used Innovates

I R smrt! (According to the test)
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Old 06-29-2007, 02:30 AM   #3
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so, the tester is an Innovate dealer eh?

I had little faith in my innovate until I got to simulataniously compare it with a MoTec on the dyno. I never saw a delta over a couple hundreths.
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Old 06-29-2007, 02:31 AM   #4
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I bought an Innovate WB02 because it was cheap!
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Old 06-29-2007, 02:32 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
so, the tester is an Innovate dealer eh?
Yup, because everyone is full of **** and biased. I knew it wouldn't take long for someone to come along with a comment like that. Thanks for not dissapointing me!
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Old 06-29-2007, 02:57 AM   #6
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Well I am a bit surprised, that the indeed very good logging features of the Zeitronix don't give the ZT-2 a better result. AFAIK the ZT-2 has way more logging capability than the Innovate.

Also I dont think the installation itself is very comlicated, I just think the instructions are not very exact.

But anyway, congrats to all the Innovate users.

Greets
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Old 06-29-2007, 03:54 AM   #7
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Anybody ever use the Summit wide band kit? Looks pretty much exactly like the Innovate LC-1 kit and even comes with Innovate's logging software.
Innovate LC-1 - gauge which is about $100 for a cheap one

Summit's kig with a gauge
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Old 06-29-2007, 09:32 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canker View Post
Anybody ever use the Summit wide band kit? Looks pretty much exactly like the Innovate LC-1 kit and even comes with Innovate's logging software.
Innovate LC-1 - gauge which is about $100 for a cheap one

Summit's kig with a gauge
Are you beings serious?!

say you go to Walmart, and buy a Sony TV....does that make the TV a Walmart TV? (I'm not even going to mention where it says "Brand: Innovate Technology Inc.") :gay:

both kits are more expensive than where you can get elsewhere, plus summit's shitty handling fee. Try diyautotune.com
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Old 06-29-2007, 03:54 PM   #9
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What? No say you go to Walmart and buy a Walmart brand Tv made by Sony using the same crap Sony does. Does that make the cheaper Walmart tv just as good as the Sony? Just trying to figure out if the samething was done here.
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Old 06-29-2007, 05:03 PM   #10
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Canker, in answer to your question, yes, the Walmart brand TV using the same internals as a Sony TV would be of the same quality... but that's not the story with this product.

Summit is simply a distributor for Innovate Technologies. The reason it looks like the LC1 and comes with the Innovate software, is because it IS AN LC1. They've simply removed the Innovate sticker and added a crappy gauge that you can buy anywhere, and called it a "Summit Kit". Reread what Braineak said, his analogy is correct.

Also, welcome to the forum. Perhaps you could fill out the rest of your profile, your vbGarage, and throw down a "Newb Here" thread in the BS Forum and introduce yourself.
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Old 06-29-2007, 05:22 PM   #11
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Well, good to know the AEM I got isn't worthless...great thing is I still saved money compared to the innovative
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Old 06-29-2007, 05:38 PM   #12
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ha I didnt even notice the second kit... i looked at the picture and assumed it was the lc-1...which it is. just a way for them to try to market it I guess...but it's the still same lc-1 kit with a gauge....flip the controller over and it will still say innovative on it.
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Old 06-29-2007, 05:48 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayc72 View Post
Yup, because everyone is full of **** and biased. I knew it wouldn't take long for someone to come along with a comment like that. Thanks for not dissapointing me!
So, which one of us is the debaser?
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Old 07-01-2007, 12:15 PM   #14
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Today I had my first chance to work with a Innovate LM1 on
a supercharged Mercedes.
My friend had problems to adjust a 5th injector system.
( which I dont like anyway )

First thing I did: Throw that LM1 out and put a ZT-2 in.
Reason: What a WBO2 display can tell me without boost info?
Not really usefull.

Truly, thats my only experience with Innovate products till today,
I cant tell anything more about the quality.


Falk
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Old 07-01-2007, 12:39 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
so, the tester is an Innovate dealer eh?

I had little faith in my innovate until I got to simulataniously compare it with a MoTec on the dyno. I never saw a delta over a couple hundreths.
The fact that the tester has a stake in how good the Innovate comes out does make one wonder about the validity of the test.

However, the statement that the Zeitronix's logging software was difficult to use and lacked features is what made me wonder about the whole test. The ZT-2 is the cheapest WB that comes out of the box with the ability to log AFR against RPM and TPS and it's as simple as enabling by checking off a box - WTF is so difficult about that???
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Old 07-01-2007, 12:51 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckerants View Post
However, the statement that the Zeitronix's logging software was difficult to use and lacked features is what made me wonder about the whole test. The ZT-2 is the cheapest WB that comes out of the box with the ability to log AFR against RPM and TPS and it's as simple as enabling by checking off a box - WTF is so difficult about that???
They gave my PLX a "fair" for ease of use. It has 3 wires to connect, no buttons, and automatic calibration. Sucks they said it was inaccurate though.
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Old 07-01-2007, 01:00 PM   #17
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The ZT-2 is a bad *** unit no matter how you roll it. The logging is easy as hell and it can be an all in one solution for auxiliary instrumentation. That test is really making waves right now on all the forums. I think its silly. If there was one brand of wideband that consistently read a full point richer than is actual I think you would see a pattern for people losing engines and running that wideband. I've tuned with the LM-1, and AEM and never had any issues. I the ZT-2 for my own car since I wanted no round gauges to attract any negative attention and was digging the logging abilities. A good buddy of mine runs the PLX 500R and its a great unit as well. Now when XSpower or SSautochrome start selling a wideband..........
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Old 07-01-2007, 02:00 PM   #18
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Let's just ASSUME that the testers were honest about the units' UEGO abilities.

The other stuff, the functionality and ease of use stuff, is opinion based. If you're used to messing with Innovate's software, other company's software might be akward at first. And vise versa. I would take that kind of info with a grain of salt.

Again, if the accuracy test was done fairly, then that's the type of hard data that's good to have. I'd like to see an independant party perfrom a similar shake down.

I can say that my Innovate LC was amazingly accurate when compared to a high dollar MoTec. It would be cool to play with others to compare.
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Old 07-18-2007, 12:01 AM   #19
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Apparently the Innovate was the only sensor hooked up on the digital link to the Innovate datalogger. Just might account for some of the '"amazing"performance from the Innovate camp. I'm not a hater, honest, but it sure wasn't a fair test. Also, the calibration was done by holding the sensor in front of the open nozzle of calibration gas.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeitronix View Post
Dear Zeitronix Dealer,

Regarding the recent Fordmuscle wideband shootout.
We have spoken to Mr. Mike Kojima, the author of the Fordmuscle shootout and got first hand test details.

The tests were done using Innovate methodology and Innovate equipment.

There were several major flaws in the test, including but not limited to the way the O2 sensor was exposed to the test gases.

One of the major test flaws was reading the AFR value from the Zeitronix Zt-2 analog output using the Innovate logger. There is always a voltage drop on the power-ground wire caring 12W of O2 sensor heater power and offsetting the AFR value. Reading the AFR value from the Innovate digital output but logging a raw Zt-2 voltage using Innovate logger suspected the Zt-2 AFR reading to the voltage drop, noise and Innovate logger analog to digital conversion offsets and conversion time. The Zeitronix ZDL datalogging software should have been used to read the AFR value from the digital output of the Zt-2; not any other product brand. Using the Innovate analog logger gave Innovate LC-1 unit, a half track length advantage in this 1/4 mile race. We either start from the same line or this test is not valid at all. This is an absolute violation and unscrupulous action.

The same goes for the "latency" measurement. The Zt-2 AFR readings were obtained by using the Innovate logger and software.

The Zeitronix ZDL software was not used in the test but scored the lowest.

Moreover, the Zt-2 scored the lowest in "ease of use" category. You know first hand how easy is to get the AFR value from the Zt-2. It takes two wires to be connected to +12V and ground plus the O2 sensor placed in the exhaust stream to read the AFR. The Zeitronix LCD display plugs and powers up directly from the Zt-2.

As you suspect, Fordmuscle is sponsored by Innovate.

At this point we are requesting comments to be added to Frodmuscle Wideband Shootout immediately.

Thank you for your patronage.
Zbigniew
Vp Eng Zeitronix Inc.
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