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Old 11-08-2009, 03:48 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by KPLAFIN View Post
My last comment about the bill: If it's so damn good and is going to help SOO many people, then WHY please tell me WHY..Pelosi pushed so hard (and was successful at) getting it put into the bill that those who don't buy into it will face 5 years in jail/$250,000 in fines..?

And being an idiot doesn't mean you're not an intelligent person, just that you have no common sense.
As a stated earlier. I'm not sure if this bill will be "the one", but I do think it is a necessary step for healthcare reform. Healthcare costs are ridiculous and they need to come down. Will we see more in our paychecks because of it? Probably not, but more people will have coverage. I think that is a positive thing.
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Old 11-08-2009, 03:52 PM   #22
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As a stated earlier. I'm not sure if this bill will be "the one", but I do think it is a necessary step for healthcare reform. Healthcare costs are ridiculous and they need to come down. Will we see more in our paychecks because of it? Probably not, but more people will have coverage. I think that is a positive thing.
Have you even researched this plan at all? Costs will go up, we will see a lot more in our paychecks and while more people will have coverage, there will still be more than a million people without it. A lot of the people getting coverage that didn't have it before were people choosing to not have it. Now they will have it forced on them and have to pay for it.

What exactly is wrong with what we have now? Why do you think throwing away our system and taking one that the federal government is forcing on us is needed? We couldn't just fix what we have, which would be the logical thing to do? We are going to pay more and drive our deficit much further only to cover a fraction of the very small fraction of people who aren't covered... (AGAIN, a large chunk of those people are not covered by CHOICE, a choice that we will soon not have). Well, you will have a choice, as long as you can afford a large penalty for being uninsured...
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Old 11-08-2009, 04:02 PM   #23
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...and you think this is a good thing? It will not give EVERYONE healthcare, just more of the people who don't. I also love how the government is saying "people who can't afford" when in a lot of the cases, its people who don't want it, like myself. So they are going to force it down our throat, and we will still be left with millions of people who aren't insured. Premiums will go up, and people who had great health care will now only have mediocre care just so the small percentage of people who didn't have healthcare can have it (again, a lot of people by choice who will now be charged for their choice to not have coverage). Socialism in healthcare FTW!!!
I can see it from both sides here. While I agree that you should have a right to not purchase anything that you don't want. When you look at the all of people without insurance there will be a percentage that will get injured and have extremely large medical bills. Their treatment is then payed for by the hospital, and all the people involved in the treatment are working for free. The reality is that the staff does not see a loss in wage, but if it happens enough then the hospital could not afford to pay their staff. If everyone pays something , then hopefully there is enough money to pay for everyones' care.

If you get seriously injured, and you have not been paying into any system, then you have just been treated for free.

Why should I have to pay a lot for insurance so that people can not pay and still get treatment?

It's hard for me to take the position that I take. I pay an *** ton for insurance every month. Just in case my, my wife, or daughter gets sick. We are all very healthy. I'd love to see this extra money in my pocket. I'm one of the people paying a lot and hardly ever using it. Someone else will be using the medical care that I am buying.
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Old 11-08-2009, 04:04 PM   #24
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H'Ville / B'Ham, you two aren't far from each other, I say you meet up and settle this with a good old fashioned duel.
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Old 11-08-2009, 04:06 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by NA6C-Guy View Post
Have you even researched this plan at all? Costs will go up, we will see a lot more in our paychecks and while more people will have coverage, there will still be more than a million people without it. A lot of the people getting coverage that didn't have it before were people choosing to not have it. Now they will have it forced on them and have to pay for it.

What exactly is wrong with what we have now? Why do you think throwing away our system and taking one that the federal government is forcing on us is needed? We couldn't just fix what we have, which would be the logical thing to do? We are going to pay more and drive our deficit much further only to cover a fraction of the very small fraction of people who aren't covered... (AGAIN, a large chunk of those people are not covered by CHOICE, a choice that we will soon not have). Well, you will have a choice, as long as you can afford a large penalty for being uninsured...
I would prefer to fix the current system, but no one could agree to do that. The passed bill will more than likely fail and have to be fixed. I think that this "forced fixing" will be what eventually makes this system positive.
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Old 11-08-2009, 08:56 PM   #26
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lol ok djp take my situation for example i support 3 people and make 400 dollars a week post taxes, it comes out to being alil less than 30k a year. If this bill passes aproximatley 50 or more dollars a week will be siphoned out of my paycheck, to support this ****** bill. So mr djp who probly makes 2 to 3 times what i make to support the same amount of people does this sound like it will help me. I tell you what if i get sick just shoot me toss me in the bon fire and get it over with. I have no need for doctors or any of that other overpriced ****. I will leave that for the californians.
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Old 11-08-2009, 09:07 PM   #27
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You guys need to see how Socialized Health care is working out for Massachusetts, then post here. And by you I mean DJP.

This is a good read: http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/10...linton-doesnt/
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Old 11-08-2009, 09:18 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by magnamx-5 View Post
lol ok djp take my situation for example i support 3 people and make 400 dollars a week post taxes, it comes out to being alil less than 30k a year. If this bill passes aproximatley 50 or more dollars a week will be siphoned out of my paycheck, to support this ****** bill. So mr djp who probly makes 2 to 3 times what i make to support the same amount of people does this sound like it will help me. I tell you what if i get sick just shoot me toss me in the bon fire and get it over with. I have no need for doctors or any of that other overpriced ****. I will leave that for the californians.
I would hope that your particular situation would qualify for the healthcare subsidies that have been discussed in the past. I would be lying if I told yo I know everything about the bill that was just passed. It is vast, and will take a great length of time to fully understand the ins and outs.
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Old 11-08-2009, 09:23 PM   #29
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From what i have read that is with the subsidies. So basically we are screwed. And yeah i have read 99% of what i can find on the healthcare bill and all 6-7 forms of it and how each one would effect me. Bottom line any bill that passed and mandated that i get healthcare or pay there extortion, will ruin me. So everynight i will just pray that mushroom clouds apear over the capital, and california.

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Old 11-08-2009, 09:34 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
You guys need to see how Socialized Health care is working out for Massachusetts, then post here. And by you I mean DJP.

This is a good read: Health Care Speechwriter for Edwards, Obama & Clinton Without Insurance Now -- Politics Daily
If I comprehended this correctly then I would say that the gentleman in the article shares a similar view as myself. Although it is not widely accepted.

I recently made a trip to Ottawa, Canada to visit relatives (both physicians), and one cousin in residency. They have national health care system. I would like to see a similar system in the US. Dump the money into medicare and let it be the national system. The reason why most seem to be against it is because of the higher tax that is imposed on everyone. The problem in the US is that our taxes don't generally go to things that directly make our day to day lives better. (let me clarify before I sound like a communist) In Denmark I believe they give 50% of their income to the government as tax. I also believe it is a flat tax. Healthcare, retirement, etc are all covered by the government. When you get old there will be someone to take care of you. The government will even sponsor your social activities. You want to start a miata club? The government will subsidize the club.

In the US we are taken care of on a minimal level if we have no money, the government does not subsidize a high quality of life. If your old with no money, then you get the bottom of the barrel for care, and you will most likely struggle.

Physicians in a national system have a lower income than physicians in the US. This is another reason why you don't see a large push for a national system.

I'm sure this post will make me even more unpopular when it comes to this topic, however I think it is good to hear other opinions on the issue.
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Old 11-08-2009, 09:42 PM   #31
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Meh im still not swayed to your opinion.
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Old 11-08-2009, 09:45 PM   #32
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For the OP, have you read the bill? Probably not...and, if you decided you don't want to have any insurance but have to go to the hospital, guess who pays you tab? ...me
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Old 11-08-2009, 09:54 PM   #33
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and me. and if there's no preventative care (covered by your insurance), then the bills are usually higher than they would be otherwise.
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Old 11-08-2009, 09:56 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by msydnor View Post
if you decided you don't want to have any insurance but have to go to the hospital, guess who pays you tab? ...me
Don't even want to get into this political debacle, but I agree with this statement!....many of us foot the bill for others and MOST of the time its bullshit....wic, people taking advantage of unemployment, uninsured ppl....
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Old 11-08-2009, 10:09 PM   #35
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For the OP, have you read the bill? Probably not...and, if you decided you don't want to have any insurance but have to go to the hospital, guess who pays you tab? ...me
like i said just kill me i havent been near a hospital and many upon many years and will do my damndest to not be anywhere near one. So yeah how bout you talk to those people abusing the system and seeing a doctor every week for a runny nose or stiff wrist. Tell em to suck it up or die in the streets so i dont have to deal with the fallout they are creating. Hell up until 20 to 30 yrs ago health insurance was a real benefit now that its looking at a mandatory stay on everyone it will become just another burden. **** those idiots who talk about being scared cause they have no insurance, how about being scared cause you can't buy food for dinner, or gas/electricity to heat your home? There are basic needs of everyone and healthcare is not one of them by a long shot.
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Old 11-08-2009, 11:19 PM   #36
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like i said just kill me i havent been near a hospital and many upon many years and will do my damndest to not be anywhere near one. So yeah how bout you talk to those people abusing the system and seeing a doctor every week for a runny nose or stiff wrist. Tell em to suck it up or die in the streets so i dont have to deal with the fallout they are creating. Hell up until 20 to 30 yrs ago health insurance was a real benefit now that its looking at a mandatory stay on everyone it will become just another burden. **** those idiots who talk about being scared cause they have no insurance, how about being scared cause you can't buy food for dinner, or gas/electricity to heat your home? There are basic needs of everyone and healthcare is not one of them by a long shot.
Or maybe your uninsured *** when you wreck your car and run up a few million dollar bill.
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Old 11-08-2009, 11:30 PM   #37
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few million dollar lol sure not gonna happen like i said just leave me where i am. Julio on the other hand that drops a brick on his foot will be happy to go to the ER. I have auto insurance as i am required to via state law and i pay 2-3 times what the price should be of it becouse it is mandatory. Mandatory insurance helps no one, esp in car insurance becouse at the end of the day there are still people i know who drive with no license insurance and expired plates from 2 states over, and they are still driving around dispite having been pulled over multiple times etc. Make no mistake mysdnor if i have a wreck im either gonna walk away or nvr leave the site. So you wanna play chicken? winner gets to decide on mandating what people should pay for.
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Old 11-08-2009, 11:37 PM   #38
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I live in Canada. I'm glad to see our neighbors move to adopt a similar system that is meant to raise the quality of life for the population as a whole.

Yes, when there are more social systems the middle class is favored (through higher taxes) but it's better than allowing the rich to get richer at the cost of the poor getting poorer.

People will always abuse the system - any system for that matter - so that's not a valid point in this argument.
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Old 11-08-2009, 11:37 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by magnamx-5 View Post
Meh im still not swayed to your opinion.
I'm not trying to sway anyone towards my opinion. I don't expect anyone to read my posts and have a new outlook on life. I do, however, enjoy reading other peoples opinions. I try to keep an open mind. I'm sure there are many points of view that I have let go unseen. I can learn something from everyone, so I try to collect as much info as possible.
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Old 11-08-2009, 11:39 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by magnamx-5 View Post
few million dollar lol sure not gonna happen like i said just leave me where i am. Julio on the other hand that drops a brick on his foot will be happy to go to the ER. I have auto insurance as i am required to via state law and i pay 2-3 times what the price should be of it becouse it is mandatory. Mandatory insurance helps no one, esp in car insurance becouse at the end of the day there are still people i know who drive with no license insurance and expired plates from 2 states over, and they are still driving around dispite having been pulled over multiple times etc. Make no mistake mysdnor if i have a wreck im either gonna walk away or nvr leave the site. So you wanna play chicken? winner gets to decide on mandating what people should pay for.
I am sorry that you feel this way while also having 3 dependents.
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