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Any sort of loam, the ardent "can" be acceptable.* Loose over hard or dusty, not for even a second. Also, I find that people that don't lean their bike over really hard tend to think the ardent is an ok tire. The more you lean the bike over, the sketchier the ardent becomes and the breakaway point is not progressive like the minions. In my opinion there are just simply better tires for what the ardents weigh and their rolling resistance (specialized, bontrager have a few i would run over an ardent). They also don't come in any of the swanky tire compounds (3c maxx speed, 3c maxx terra) etc. To me, it's essentially a jack of all trades tire that manages to be exceptionally good at really nothing. It would be like me expecting re71r tires to be able to street drive to the track, compete on the bleeding edge against hoosier r7's in the dry, and also compete against hoosier h20's in the wet and also ride as well as a michelain pilot super sport on the fwy. With an amazing driver could I accomplish some of those things? Sure. However, with the right tire choice, a mediocre driver can be mid pack.
Dave how do you feel about aggressor vs dhf for the rear on a 29r enduro rig? I've always run a 3c Maxterra compound DHF (2.3" on 30id) paired with a dual compound DHR (2.3" on 30id) on my 29r enduro bike. The DHR however definitely has a squishy casing and because of that I end up having to run a bit more pressure then I would like to eliminate side wall flex/folding. I've been thinking about trying the aggressor for a bit faster roll speed and maybe to try out a different casing/sidewall config but I'm slightly concerned about braking and technical climbing traction issues with the aggressor. What say you?
Last edited by EErockMiata; 12-01-2017 at 11:45 AM.
Hardpack and loose over hard mostly. I don't really know how to best describe it. During some off camber corners they do feel a bit skittish, but not terrible. There are a few tight windy sections on hardpack between trees and I can zoom through them just fine by leaning forward a bit. Off camber stuff here is few and far between. I typically dismount only on climbs where I can't clear large obstacles, and I took one fall on some wet rocks but I think any tire would have given out at the speed and angle I hit them. Generally if the turn is flat or slightly banked I don't have a problem and just lean the bike and it goes just fine. I've learned to ride the outside of some flatter turns where there is a tiny berm and that lets me lean the bike more. I've gotten really comfortable riding on these so maybe I'm just used to it, or haven't tried enough other tires to know a difference, but they certainly don't scream "remove us" to me. Not sure if FS has anything to do with this and that I push through a lot of turns with my legs and get more traction that way
They absolutely suck in muddy conditions, get packed with mud easily and slide around turns, but i try not to ride in those conditions anyway
There is 100% something to be said for riding within what the bike wants. Every time I have a near miss I sorta hear emilio in the back of my head from the miata challenge days, preaching about getting the most out of the particular car/setup and not forcing the equipment into something it doesn't want to do. If you're comfortable with that and your'e good at it, the ardent is fine. It's when you start pushing it outside of it's comfort zone that it goes **** up. Extreme off camber loose over hard, rock slabs with dust on them and just going mach chicken in general on gnarly stuff (rock rollers in laguna for example) where the ardent falls flat. I rode it for a long while as a front tire on my XC bike and then had a really bad washout at speed. That washout was likely my fault, but overall I just found the ardent not forgiving at all as a front tire. As a rear I enjoy it because i can overwork it on purpose and get a drift going. IMO the only saving grace that the ardent has going for it is the super large casing that it's built on. That air volume makes it compliant which helps out. The 2.35 ikon is built on the same casing and I think does everything the ardent does with significantly less rolling resistance.
I've since switched to a forekaster 2.3 front on my 29r xc/trail bike. I like that tire quite a bit but it will get replaced when a large volume casing rekon comes out.
Regarding blowing tires up and slashing them... I weigh about 185lbs and I ride pretty aggressively. I'm no dave camp (Pro/Am enduro racer) but over the years I've gotten fast enough that when I chose a bad line, things go poorly for either me or the equipment. Once that started happening I started having a 50/50 ratio of blowing sidewalls up when I make a big mistake in some chunk. Previously to that I wasn't riding hard enough to blow up tires rims... unfortunately, i am now.
I have some worn out Bontrager XR3 on my other wheels but I may try the XR4 next go around, and talk to more locals about what they use and why. Then again, I'm working on getting what may be my dream job to be a Sales Manager for a local TREK store, so the discounts and being able to demo other bikes at my leisure will allow me to try a lot more things and maybe I will find something I like better. I still think I could go up one frame size to be honest, but I'm fine with what i have probably because I'm just used to it. The fact that I can hit some really good times on the size frame I have and the tires I have just tells me I need to keep doing what I'm doing. Considering terrain is so different around the country, the issues some guys have with them may be non-existent where I live.
The more you lean the bike over, the sketchier the ardent becomes and the breakaway point is not progressive like the minions.
Agreed. I swapped from Kenda Small Blcok 8's to HRII front Ardent rear and thought the combo was great. As I progress my skills and start to lean more in the corners, I'm liking the Ardent less and less.
My buddy did tell me he felt the vagueness in them, but only at higher pressures. He said for him once he got down to 20psi that empty intermediate feeling kind of went away. Winter is my pushing time because I ride bundled up so falling doesn't rip skin but clothing. I'll push them around hard this winter and see how they fare. I've found that even if I purposely rip the bike aggressively into corners or mid corner yank the bars and lean the bike harder they just bite and go for me. The only time I feel the front end washing out is if I'm not leaned forward and have the front wheel unweighted, which I can imagine might happen during a fast descent when you're trying to keep some weight back to avoid an OTB situation, but I really try to be careful on descents anyway, a 120mm front and rear and 69.5* head tube does not make for a good descending bike no matter the tire. I try to focus on climbing fast, trying to climb over new bigger obstacles, and hitting the flowy sections of trail fast. Something about falling on a bunch of jagged rocks and tumbling downhill keeps me going slower on descents, and I don't think even the best tire will get me over that fear.
Dave how do you feel about aggressor vs dhf for the rear on a 29r enduro rig? I've always run a 3c Maxterra compound DHF (2.3" on 30id) paired with a dual compound DHR (2.3" on 30id) on my 29r enduro bike. The DHR however definitely has a squishy casing and because of that I end up having to run a bit more pressure then I would like to eliminate side wall flex/folding. I've been thinking about trying the aggressor for a bit faster roll speed and maybe to try out a different casing/sidewall config but I'm slightly concerned about braking and technical climbing traction issues with the aggressor. What say you?
I think the aggressor (double down) somehow has a burlier casing than minion DHF (double down). I had them both side-by-side and the aggressor was noticealby stiffer casing wise. I think the aggressor will roll a bit faster than the DHRII/DHF but ultimately less grip. They climb and brake well, but their cornering ***** are a little skinny. Also the **** height is lower so they seem to wear quick. Decent rear tire and the casing is burly (double down specifically).
Also the aggressor profile is a little more square which I didn't like- seemed like I could lean the bike over too far and grip started falling off. My favorite combo right now is DHF 2.5 on the front, DHF 2.3 on the rear. They match better for me.
Also, my GF scored her first MTB:
SS Superfly with an RD, $100 11-speed XT from shop-bros, garbage Bontrager Mustang wheels, Rockshocks SiD World Cup fork. The bike is 21lb and could lose a pound of wheel.
Does anyone have an aluminum 36T 5x110mm bolt circle chain ring they want to sell? For my oldest's christmas bike. I have a steel one from Trey's old CX but...grams.
You rode right past one of my favorite descents. Joplin. You can turn that into an epic loop where you descend Joplin and then drop through old camp to the luge flag, down the luge and then back to your car. Nice ride man, I love that ride up to Santiago peak, the views are great. Next time, climb up there by way of Holy Jim. One of the classic socal single tracks in the CNF/SNA mountains and it was just brushed back 2 weeks ago so it's in prime shape right now.
I can't wait for the 29x2.35 rekon to come out so that there will officially be no reason for the ardent to exist. Rekon Front - Ikon rear is going to be my ticket to Trail/XC gold in socal.
After my last few rides on the Ardent, I am ready to try something else. Any idea on this mythical 2.35 Rekon ETA? A 2.25 Exo version is in my shopping cart...
Wrong time of year to sell, I know... But are 1984 trek frames worth a damn? I'm trying to downsize some of the ish I have and I have a 56cm 760 and 560(?) Built up as commuters right now. I wonder if the steel is real stuff still hold because seeing them sitting around and not getting ridden is giving me a sad.
After my last few rides on the Ardent, I am ready to try something else. Any idea on this mythical 2.35 Rekon ETA? A 2.25 Exo version is in my shopping cart...
It's months away since right now its weekly evening (-1 to -15 celcius) winter rides on 29" Nokian Extremes with 294 studs weighing in at 1115g each but.........but.........I have been toying with either a sub 600 gram fast tire or completely the other way and some 29x2.6 Nobby Nics or equivalent for some outrageous traction. Anyone ridden a 29er with tires around the 2.6 width? Don't want to switch to making 27.5 plus wheels & tires work. I'd rather stay with 29 and "relatively light" but volume oriented tire.
Wrong time of year to sell, I know... But are 1984 trek frames worth a damn? I'm trying to downsize some of the ish I have and I have a 56cm 760 and 560(?) Built up as commuters right now. I wonder if the steel is real stuff still hold because seeing them sitting around and not getting ridden is giving me a sad.
Doubt it's worth much- check ebay.
Originally Posted by Landrew
It's months away since right now its weekly evening (-1 to -15 celcius) winter rides on 29" Nokian Extremes with 294 studs weighing in at 1115g each but.........but.........I have been toying with either a sub 600 gram fast tire or completely the other way and some 29x2.6 Nobby Nics or equivalent for some outrageous traction. Anyone ridden a 29er with tires around the 2.6 width? Don't want to switch to making 27.5 plus wheels & tires work. I'd rather stay with 29 and "relatively light" but volume oriented tire.
I ride all the time on 29x2.5" Minions. It's sweet. If you want winter tires with lots of traction (and slow AF rolling speed) maxxis makes 2.5" shorty spikes. They are amazing in mud and packed snow.
Wrong time of year to sell, I know... But are 1984 trek frames worth a damn? I'm trying to downsize some of the ish I have and I have a 56cm 760 and 560(?) Built up as commuters right now. I wonder if the steel is real stuff still hold because seeing them sitting around and not getting ridden is giving me a sad.
They are worth something to someone especially if you wait a few months. Post pictures of them here!
I very much enjoy riding my 87 560. I did my last century on it, I had no complaints at all (although two old timers complained about the 'new' groupset). Funny that it is my most aero bike. Rides nicer than my van dessel but not as nice as my tarmac. 19.5lbs. It does flex when you really crank on it and it is a bit twitchy.
I ride all the time on 29x2.5" Minions. It's sweet. If you want winter tires with lots of traction (and slow AF rolling speed) maxxis makes 2.5" shorty spikes. They are amazing in mud and packed snow.
They claim 1025g for the wide 29 folding version of that Shorty. Sticking with my carbide studs or I'd be eating snow and ice every 5 min. They need a 2.5 studded tire in folding - that would be just right.
They are worth something to someone especially if you wait a few months. Post pictures of them here!
I very much enjoy riding my 87 560. I did my last century on it, I had no complaints at all (although two old timers complained about the 'new' groupset). Funny that it is my most aero bike. Rides nicer than my van dessel but not as nice as my tarmac. 19.5lbs. It does flex when you really crank on it and it is a bit twitchy.
Spoiler
The 760 is currently built up as an SSFG, but I really don't want to see the bike destroyed by that crowd... I kinda want to keep it and build it back up as a road bike... maybe sell my CAAD9 instead. None of these are worth much anymore sadly...
Here's a pic of the trek from when I was in college. Built it up with 'shimagnolo' components because folks said it couldn't be done, but apparently if you tweak things justtttt right, you can get a campy drivetrain to work with shimano wheels/cassettes. Made switching wheels a pain but that didn't matter since I only had 1-2 sets of wheels because college!
12-01-2017, 11:02 AM
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