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Old 01-27-2008, 08:24 PM   #121
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No I didn't. I made my points already. Look, he never said "no equal rights". As a Constitutionalist, he will be the first to defend our inalienable rights to life, liberty, and property.
So he would allow same sex marriage? (This is a yes or no question)
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Old 01-27-2008, 09:19 PM   #122
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So he would allow same sex marriage? (This is a yes or no question)
I believe he would.
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Old 01-27-2008, 09:21 PM   #123
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I believe he would.
that's where we disagree. If he supports equal rights he should make it clear for everyone.
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Old 01-27-2008, 09:21 PM   #124
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Israel is attacked on a daily basis as it is. Us leaving and not giving support to a nation that will be savaged by its neighbors is cowardly.

I guess it comes down to being "a man" and unselfish.
Attacked by the occasional suicide bomber is one thing, by a military invasion is another. The latter is not gonna happen given that they have nukes.

Why do you think they need our help with the piddly suicide bomber ********?
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Old 01-27-2008, 09:24 PM   #125
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that's where we disagree. If he supports equal rights he should make it clear for everyone.
"Equal rights" as per the Constitution is clearly something he supports.
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Old 01-27-2008, 09:26 PM   #126
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piddly suicide bomber? Seriously?

Piddly airplanes into two towers.....

I consider all attacks on a nation's sovereignty serious
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Old 01-27-2008, 09:32 PM   #127
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WTF does 911 have to do with Israel's problems and our aid to them?
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Old 01-27-2008, 09:37 PM   #128
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You want to see an attack on a nation's sovereignty? Read up on the North American Union and the SPP (Security and Prosperity Partnership) between the USA, Mexico, and Canada.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/printer_5979.shtml
http://www.canadians.org/integrateth...e/workers.html
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Old 01-27-2008, 09:37 PM   #129
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I was wondering what classifies as a serious attack in your opinion
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Old 01-27-2008, 09:39 PM   #130
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WTF does 911 have to do with Israel's problems and our aid to them?
Oh, just about everything.
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Old 01-27-2008, 09:46 PM   #131
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OK that's another topic. This thread is ABOUT THE ECONOMY.
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Old 01-27-2008, 09:56 PM   #132
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dude this isn't m.net

conversations meander. Within the first two post you guys started talking about how the media is at fault for Ron Paul losing and that America needs a cookie cutter candidate
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Old 01-27-2008, 10:14 PM   #133
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Loki, there has been a continuous attack on SOVEREIGNTY of this country. NAFTA courts have been usurping the nation's supreme courts. NAFTA, SPP, and the proposed Amero require law changes in the member countries. These law changes don't go through the normal democratic process, but are put in place with treaties, going around the Constitution in the USA, for example.

BTW a terrorist attack on a country is not an attack on its sovereignty. A terrorist attack is a way to force the victim country, by attacking its citizens, to change something in their policies. For example, the IRA wanted N. Ireland to be free, the attack in Barcelona was to get Spain to pull out of Iraq.
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Old 01-27-2008, 10:19 PM   #134
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereignty

See now this makes me think that people who use violence to force their policies onto others averts their sovereignty.

So when does the terrorism that Israel experiences becomes a threat to soverinty?
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Old 01-27-2008, 10:27 PM   #135
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Funny that most of the terrorists were from Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. Then we ran into Iraq, to make it all right.

Policing the world is ISAF's job anyways. They are already taking over bases in Afghanistan. Terrorists are terrorists, they have no country they claim their own, just a cause they try to force on everyone else. They best thing we should do for this country is defend it from fanatics. Whether its people in Oklahoma, or people coming from other countries.
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Old 01-27-2008, 10:42 PM   #136
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If we leave the Middle East, over the years it will DEFLATE the terrorists' motivation to die to attack us.
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Old 01-27-2008, 10:47 PM   #137
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It still doesn't change the fact that were infidels.
Also im pretty sure they will be pissed at the carnage left behind.
More people will join together on the common cause to "get us back."
Its not gonna end whether we stay or leave. But at least while we are there its killing them on their own soil, before they make it to ours.

If we leave though, it would save America allot of money we could use to protect our own people on our own soil.
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Old 01-27-2008, 11:43 PM   #138
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If we leave the Middle East, over the years it will DEFLATE the terrorists' motivation to die to attack us.
so let the terrorists win?
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Old 01-27-2008, 11:58 PM   #139
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What matters more, who "wins", or if we are better off getting out of the ME?
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Old 01-28-2008, 04:41 PM   #140
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Unlike most others in our country, I don't rely on the news for my take on things. Rebuilding is clearly a term used loosely here, as I have seen firsthand what complete disarray that country is in, to include all elements of government. Corruption and apathy are the status quo. They are a lost cause, and our dollars continue to get wasted on them.

Your eight months during OIF I are absolutely of no comparison to current times in Iraq, I assure you. Things in Iraq are relative, surely, but you are poorly mistaken if you think your experience there in a completely different phase of the war is applicable to today. My mom was also scared while I was there, as was the rest of my family and friends. For good reason, too, as my battalion took 25% casualties during our 15 month deployment. I have personally seen Humvees in my element hit by IEDs multiple times in one movement of one day, so don't for one instant make some bullshit statment about how overblown the threat is in the media. Your misguided effort at downplaying the war is a huge insult to those facing true danger right this moment.

As I eluded to earlier, your words sound an awful lot like those of someone who's never seen the worst of it. You are in fact lucky for that.
I have my reasons to believe what I believe. I have been a part of meetings with local government leaders that simply don't have a clue or a will. I am, however, well aware of the fact that the media won't celebrate anything remotely positive regarding the whole Iraq situation. I used to feel the same way in terms of us staying or leaving. We are there now, but the level of accomplishment is definitely questionable. While corruption and apathy might indeed be the status quo in a number of nations, Iraq happens to be the one in question, and for obvious reasons. Ideally, we could enable Iraq to jumpstart a reputable governmental structure, but that simply isn't the case. Bottom line.

I don't feel as though I've belittled his experience one bit. He made some irritatingly ignorant comments. Anyone in the know would realize that IEDs were not a prominent threat until early '04. So, his statement that his regiment didn't face a big IED threat is irrelevant. Everybody was cruising around with no doors in '03, where as today Frag 5 up-armored Humvees are the standard. Additionally, his comments about soldiers hanging themselves in the barracks?... Are you ******* kidding me? Unfortunately, his saying that he was there buys him credibility to the masses. For his statements to be off-base make that misinformation.
So you don't think I got shot at all the time? That I didn't go on raids? Dude, I drove my 1SG and my XO, was voted "Best Driver in the Regiment", and I did all that on top of my 8hr radio shift in the TOC. I had access to all the radio chatter, plus I had boots on the ground every day, 10+hrs a day. I drove to BIAP DAILY...down "IED ALLEY".
Did you get shot at when you drove into Iraq? Nope, you got a flight into the airport.

Did you have kids running in front of you as you went thru small towns, some trying to steal food, others just trying to get you to stop so you would be easier to shoot?

Were you there when the lead was flying when Uday and Kusay (spelling?) were killed..or when they caught Saddam?

...and we were the ONLY unit running without doors in Baghdad. Like a fiberglass door is gonna stop anything, besides you trying to get out when you are under fire. We didn't even get the armoured HMMWVs until right before I left, and even then, they only went to the QRF. We had IEDs hit our patrols....we were in Fullajah for 12 days, too. We went there before the 82d airborne (they relieved us) and were constantly getting hit by IEDs and small unit attacks. I got hit by 2 of them on the 2d to last day, but they were buried too deep and just threw dirt on us. Then the night before we were getting relieved, we had a mortar attack on our base, 3 rounds landing in the compound, the farthest on not 100yds from where I was sleeping. The GREAT news, was that our camp of 3000, all but 41 were out on a big raid in Fallujah. Only thing that saved our *** was the gun bunnies landing indirect fire just outside the berms.

Did you enjoy having running water, AC, and hot food your first day in Iraq? I didn't get running water or hot T-rations for 2 months, and they got AC going in Dec, right before I left, and right when it was too cold to need. I used to sleep on the roof because it actually had a breeze, and would constantly hear gunshots. Seems a sniper (not really, cause he couldn't aim for ****) had been using a nearby water tower to shoot at us. There were lots of bullet impacts on the ledge of my building where he had been trying to shoot ME, but we got him with our own sniper before he actually learned to aim.

So yeah, I had it easy. But I, unlike alot of people in this country, saw it as my DUTY. I didn't sign up after 9/11...I had been in since 95. I joined to do just what I did, goto war and do what my country asks, without bitching and moaning and blaming everyone else. I could have died any one of the days I was there, and god knows the insurgents were trying to make it happen.
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