zippysport

I am running this ignition map on a 1.6 with forged rods at 15PSI on 91-92 octane gas, with 10% Ethanol from the pump. I am running FlowForce 640cc injectors. This map is working fairly well, and does not seem to have any ill effects. I was having a problem where the motor would run badly and start missing at 4500 under boost at full throttle. My previous map was closer to the one posted above. After adding the advance higher up, it is pulling well up to redline. Before these changes, it could be nursed up to redline, but would stumble and stutter when it reached 4500 rpm if I just stomped on the throttle. I've put about 10k on the motor this year, with about 3K on this ignition map. All comments are welcome.

18psi

iTrader: (76)

The problem with running crappy maps is that it works "ok", until it doesn't and you hurt something. But I'm too old to keep repeating this crap, I'll just let you all find out the hard way.

sonofthehill

iTrader: (1)

Agreed, a timing map is a very vehicle specific personalized thing.

zippysport

Awesome. Is mine crappy? Is there anything I should look out for that your wisdom could protect me from, or are you just speaking in general about the risks of using someone else's map? I'd rather be called an idiot, then take action than go along thinking everything is OK until it isn't!! I've read plenty but sometimes I need help with specific application and interpretation. If anyone sees something screaming to be changed, I would love to hear what and what your reasoning is. I won't follow all suggestions blindly, but I sure will think about what you're saying.

nickalltogether

I don't recall anyone in this thread asking for a map they could put directly into their tune and go. Speaking for myself, I wanted a comparison point for what I have in my tune. An ideal timing map is setup to setup, but a reference point never hurts. If nothing else it can serve as a jumping off point for further critical thinking.

18psi

iTrader: (76)

Look up what a stock na8 or nb1/2 runs from the factory, the maps are funky and scaling is in load or mafg, I forget, but the maps are posted so there's your starting point. As soon as you go into boost, whole bunch of variables come into play and at that point you have to pick your strategy/approach. Do you subtract a degree for every x amount of pressure? Do you add 1 point afr for every x amount of pressure? What about low rpm high load? what about high rpm low load? What is your fuel? How healthy is your engine? What's the setup? What's your temps and baro pressure like? and on and on and on.
If you're in NY and I'm in CA, and I share my "safe" map does it really help you? If you think it does, you're mistaken. I could go on, but you get the picture. Figuring all this out, and how it all works best for you and your car, takes stupid amounts of time. Or you pay someone. Or you just SEND IT and hope it doesn't splooge

PS: if anything, sharing logs is way more helpful, because then you can actually see what the car (if everything is done right) is actually hitting/seeing, and what the correlation is between the maps/targets. Who cares about what you target if your car isn't actually hitting it, or if the other things are so off that you blow it up with a perfect spark map.

andyfloyd

IMO thats a lot of timing up top for 92 octane. I run less than that on my motor and its also built and on 93. Maybe your engine likes it though, every engine is different. Mine doesnt want a ton of advance and it makes rediculous power very early in the rpm. I dont have a 1.6 though but just pointing out that its pretty aggressive. But if it works hey thats awesome.

SpartanSV

You won't get misfires from being a few degrees retarded from ideal. My best guess would be spark blow out. Adding timing may have moved you past MBT which lowered cylinder pressure enough to prevent blow out. It's certainly a guess with limited info, but I think it makes far more sense than being to retarded.

FWIW Your timing is more aggressive than my E85 table.

nickalltogether

On a 1.6 car, or any car without a knock sensor, what do you look for in the logs that could hint that there is too much or too little timing? I understand if all else remains the same, changes to timing can cause fluctuations in air/fuel ratio because of a more or less complete burn, but even that is relative. Coming from an LSx/HPTuners background, getting the timing dialed on my setup is probably where I feel most cautious. Short of building/buying DetCans I'm stuck just listening for weird sounds. I don't trust virtual dyno to assess power changes from minor timing changes, so looking for the point of diminishing returns also seems vague at best.

PS- Thanks for the civil response. You were well set up to respond defensively or to just be a dick and you chose to be helpful.

zippysport

I am glad for the opinions, information and input. Thank you!

From the research that I have done, I concur that this timing map seems far more aggressively advanced under boost than it should have to be. This car does have a Coil Over Plug conversion. I have verified fuel pressure and baseline timing as well. I have removed and cleaned the injectors at home via Gumout and an electrical pulsing device, and checked the injector resistance. I replaced the fuel pump with another new DW200 that I had on hand. I also have checked the coils and they show the correct resistance. The plugs in the car are Denso Iridium IK24, and seem to be in a good heat range, at least when checking visually, showing a light grey. I have it running well now, but I have tried about everything I can think of to understand why it only runs well with the timing more advanced under boost than it should need to be. I don't mean to make this thread all about my own situation, but hopefully it will help others understand what has to be looked at.

I would like to post a log and if you could help interpret it to spot any likely causes or issues, that would really be nice.

18psi

iTrader: (76)

Your timing offset is 100% correct?

zippysport

Yes, after seeing that the higher boosted advance numbers helped, I got a timing light to verify the timing. I set the fixed timing temporarily in TunerStudio to 10 degrees, then made a small tweak (-2.00) to get the baseline in TunerStudio match the timing light reading at 10 degrees. It was not far off when I started. I got the car with the MegaSquirt PNP 2 and the turbo already installed, but I had never checked the timing baseline until recently. Since I was trying to cover as many variables as possible to find out what was going on, I decided to look at the base timing as well. I believe that I have done this correctly. Though the motor seems to be running well, I still want to know why this is happening. If there is something funny going on, I want to know what it is so that I can either correct it, or at least understand it.

18psi

iTrader: (76)

https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...ing-rpm-86644/