Abe's NB-MSII Adapterboard/PnP
08-01-2009, 07:09 PM
#61
At the risk of jinxing myself... The pulse widths were from taking my MSQ and putting in to an MS built differently.
My knock sensor in line was *shared* with the barometeric correction. So, any bouncing on the line moved the fuel all over the place. In software I set baro to initial read, and put the knock on it's own pin (and set the internal pullup - nice of them to include it in software) and all is well.
Now everything looks right on the stim. Time to wedge it into my car once more, and try to track down the idle thing, then I'm all good.
-Abe.
My knock sensor in line was *shared* with the barometeric correction. So, any bouncing on the line moved the fuel all over the place. In software I set baro to initial read, and put the knock on it's own pin (and set the internal pullup - nice of them to include it in software) and all is well.
Now everything looks right on the stim. Time to wedge it into my car once more, and try to track down the idle thing, then I'm all good.
-Abe.
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08-02-2009, 04:31 AM
#62
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yea - I haven't "found" it, but I've found enough right that I'm no longer worried. It's totally solvable at this point, just need to do it. Of course, packing to move has REALLY taken a bite out of my time, but I'm not letting this project drop, either. It's too close and too many people can benefit.
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08-04-2009, 12:05 AM
#63
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Well, the barometeric correction thing was the big problem. Solved all that, and was able to start the motor right up! Everything seems fine, it's nice and responsive. What's weird is that my idle still doesn't work, and my fan output is inverted!
The idle is weird. I'm able to run a boost solenoid on the bench. All I can think of is there's another inversion happening, and the valve's too slow to react... but considering I start at 60%, and idle at 20... and it won't idle, I don't think that's it.
There's continuity from the PnP board to the valve. I'm just... stumped. I'll look at it later, but if any one has any idea, I'd be happy to hear it.
The idle is weird. I'm able to run a boost solenoid on the bench. All I can think of is there's another inversion happening, and the valve's too slow to react... but considering I start at 60%, and idle at 20... and it won't idle, I don't think that's it.
There's continuity from the PnP board to the valve. I'm just... stumped. I'll look at it later, but if any one has any idea, I'd be happy to hear it.
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08-04-2009, 08:43 AM
#65
Well, the barometeric correction thing was the big problem. Solved all that, and was able to start the motor right up! Everything seems fine, it's nice and responsive. What's weird is that my idle still doesn't work, and my fan output is inverted!
The idle is weird. I'm able to run a boost solenoid on the bench. All I can think of is there's another inversion happening, and the valve's too slow to react... but considering I start at 60%, and idle at 20... and it won't idle, I don't think that's it.
There's continuity from the PnP board to the valve. I'm just... stumped. I'll look at it later, but if any one has any idea, I'd be happy to hear it.
The idle is weird. I'm able to run a boost solenoid on the bench. All I can think of is there's another inversion happening, and the valve's too slow to react... but considering I start at 60%, and idle at 20... and it won't idle, I don't think that's it.
There's continuity from the PnP board to the valve. I'm just... stumped. I'll look at it later, but if any one has any idea, I'd be happy to hear it.
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08-04-2009, 01:45 PM
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In the MS, I just jumped the idle transistor with a wire. I *could* put the stock one in there, but don't think I need to? On the scope, in the car, the output sits at ground and the input from the CPU looks right (square wave)... But I'll take a closer look tonight.
How is the idle reacting? Is it making any sound, or just it just not do anything? Maybe there was a pin on the board that was missed that needs to be connected somewhere not just the idle output? I'm going to look at the schematic for the idle valve, maybe something is missing or got disconnected?
Oh, that's what I was afraid of. Hmmmm.
I think I'll need to run +12v to 3M.... My first blue wire... And it'd better be a hefty one.
Thankfully there's a second protection diode (unpopulated) right there where I can grab +12
--------------
I have one other odd thing on this board - on the MS. One of the ign LED's is always on. It works fine, but it's unnerving. I should scope it out.
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08-04-2009, 01:59 PM
#68
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uh huh. Plugged into my own personal MS and my own personal 'boomslang', there's switched power when I turn it on. So, that's got to be the issue. I checked my schematic, there's N.C. on pin 3M. Done deal. I have a feeling that it will be working tonight. I got two guys in town who will let me test on their cars for the alternator (though honestly I don't want to tune for OEM injectors on this burn, so I might just unplug my controller and run jumper wires over) and I think I should be good. I'm hoping to be able to ship this first board no later than thursday.
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08-04-2009, 11:21 PM
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Uh oh. For those keeping up in detail, better check here.... The short version is the alternator stuff needs work.
But the idle fix worked awesome, so this should be the last hurdle.
But the idle fix worked awesome, so this should be the last hurdle.
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08-05-2009, 03:18 AM
#73
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Looks like I used a bad footprint - I should have checked it before just using it. :-) I think this'll do it, its behaving much better now. My biggest concern is I promised this first customer injector clips and I can't fine one little part to one. :-)
-Abe.
-Abe.
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08-05-2009, 10:18 PM
#74
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OK! That's it. I'm down to one problem (how come every time I check something, there's one more problem? Such is pioneering). The alternator stuff, low battery light, they both work fine! Very happy about it. I get a better running set up than I have on my car in pretty much every way. I'm getting a bit tired of it, and jealous. :-)
The remaining problem - for some reason I decided I could run the VICS solenoid on a tinsy little 2n222A. Of course, this overheats in a matter of seconds and hits thermal shut down, cycling back on shortly thereafter. Fine if you go through the gears quick, but not what I'd call "ideal".
I'll look at the tracewidths I provided, and decide if I should stick a bigger transistor in there (likely) or cheat and use the "spare" big boy transistor on the board to run it. I'm hoping to box this up and get it to a happy recipient tonight.
The remaining problem - for some reason I decided I could run the VICS solenoid on a tinsy little 2n222A. Of course, this overheats in a matter of seconds and hits thermal shut down, cycling back on shortly thereafter. Fine if you go through the gears quick, but not what I'd call "ideal".
I'll look at the tracewidths I provided, and decide if I should stick a bigger transistor in there (likely) or cheat and use the "spare" big boy transistor on the board to run it. I'm hoping to box this up and get it to a happy recipient tonight.
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08-06-2009, 12:06 AM
#75
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Sigh. It's not the part overheating - although it was undersized for the job. It's something in software. MS-II can be so frustrating sometimes. At least I know the board works 100%, nothing on it seems to misbehave. All this and an option for joe's spark mod will be on the updated version, once I get a few of these out there for testing. I will say the car runs much better on this board than on my home wiring setup, and testing is a snap with all the jumpers.
I'd like to get this last issue (even if it IS software) sorted, but I'm basically taking orders now. $100 for a kit, and I really don't want to solder but if someone absolutely doesn't think they can (or want to or have the time to) follow instructions, then I can do the mods to the MS-I (with user supplied MS-II daughtercard) or MS-II and flesh out the board for $250 total + any shipping. If it seems high it's because I designed these boards to get OUT of soldering. :-) I'm still a little wary of saying there will be NO issues, but it looks like these are working and are the real deal.
-Abe.
I'd like to get this last issue (even if it IS software) sorted, but I'm basically taking orders now. $100 for a kit, and I really don't want to solder but if someone absolutely doesn't think they can (or want to or have the time to) follow instructions, then I can do the mods to the MS-I (with user supplied MS-II daughtercard) or MS-II and flesh out the board for $250 total + any shipping. If it seems high it's because I designed these boards to get OUT of soldering. :-) I'm still a little wary of saying there will be NO issues, but it looks like these are working and are the real deal.
-Abe.
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08-06-2009, 01:30 AM
#77
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Heh. I STILL want to get this VICS valve thing worked out, nothing leaves till I do. But it's in the works.
PayPal $104 (4% paypal fee. sorry) to AbeFM@mad.scientist.com and email me there with any questions. :-) If you're sending over a computer, etc, let me know via email and I'll get you an address.
PayPal $104 (4% paypal fee. sorry) to AbeFM@mad.scientist.com and email me there with any questions. :-) If you're sending over a computer, etc, let me know via email and I'll get you an address.
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08-06-2009, 03:39 AM
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Better still, it's not software, it's funky hardware. The IAC controls, which only MS-II folks would be familiar with, puts out +12V, which you supply to the duaghter card. So, naively, I thought I'd supply 5V instead, and everything would be awesome. Nope. Turns out the chip won't work below 10V.
Pulling the nice NPN (max rating of 9V) I had in there and bridging past it (to the db-37, actually, since the signal for the base was not a 1 amp trace) should work nicely. The chip in question supports 750 mA continuous and 1A peak, enough for the 30 ohm coil.
The boost solenoid, btw, is run off a max base-emitter voltage of 6 volts, so it's also a bad choice for this. Luckily I've got protection diodes everywhere, and the driver chip does internally as well. The point of all this? Yet again, I think I've got it all figured out. Too late for testing and not ticking off the neighbors, so tomorrow I'll give this a shot, maybe on lunch though I have to label bottles then. I'm counting on the MS-II chip to do what it claims to. It should be fine, though I'm a little curious what I ended up doing in my own MS, since it works fine.
There's a current limit on the chip, including a "0%", and I could use a voltage divider to get down. Putting ~400 ohms in series to the base of the NPN worked... But I think I'll just bridge it and let the coil driver chip drive some coils. Now I have to pull the TIP120 as well and everything is done.
edit:
ok, I hate to jynx things by saying so, but I once again think I'm all done with the mods. Going to test tomorrow.
Pulling the nice NPN (max rating of 9V) I had in there and bridging past it (to the db-37, actually, since the signal for the base was not a 1 amp trace) should work nicely. The chip in question supports 750 mA continuous and 1A peak, enough for the 30 ohm coil.
The boost solenoid, btw, is run off a max base-emitter voltage of 6 volts, so it's also a bad choice for this. Luckily I've got protection diodes everywhere, and the driver chip does internally as well. The point of all this? Yet again, I think I've got it all figured out. Too late for testing and not ticking off the neighbors, so tomorrow I'll give this a shot, maybe on lunch though I have to label bottles then. I'm counting on the MS-II chip to do what it claims to. It should be fine, though I'm a little curious what I ended up doing in my own MS, since it works fine.
There's a current limit on the chip, including a "0%", and I could use a voltage divider to get down. Putting ~400 ohms in series to the base of the NPN worked... But I think I'll just bridge it and let the coil driver chip drive some coils. Now I have to pull the TIP120 as well and everything is done.
edit:
ok, I hate to jynx things by saying so, but I once again think I'm all done with the mods. Going to test tomorrow.
Last edited by AbeFM; 08-06-2009 at 04:18 AM.
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