DIYPNP- the do it yourself Plug-n-play EMS for your car - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 07-28-2009, 10:58 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Hmm. This confuses me, but at the same time it likely explains why I got poo-pooed so hard earlier this year.

Truth is, I haven't a clue what the B&G licensing arrangement is like. I'd always assumed that the purchase of an MS1 or MS2 CPU, with the base code pre-loaded, constituted a license to use the system. If this isn't the case, then for an end-user, what exactly does constitute the license? The bare PCB?

I also never realized that the Microsquirt was available as an OEM-style module, I've only ever seen it in a case with an AmpSeal connector. Learn something new every day.
I've never asked them to layout all the details either, but for instance dating way back to the pre-DIYAT days, when you bought a MegaSquirt 'Partial Kit' from B&G, it came with a CPU, PCB, and Map Sensor. You could get replacement CPUs, but the PCB only came as part of the package. This 3-part package, and B&G getting paid for it, is an integral part of your purchasing a B&G MegaSquirt ECU. They don't ask much, but their efforts are worth what they ask for sure. Trust me, these guys still pour everything back into developing new products- they still work day jobs, nobody has gotten rich . IMO I think they're pretty selfless.

So if you someone were to want to develop a new PCB that could be purchased and used instead of buying the partial kit from B&G (or a kit based off of it), they'd need a license agreement that says they pay B&G for the right to build an EMS that's based on MegaSquirt technology and code. That gets messy and expensive though, with lawyers and deals falling through and time consumed and endless requests for license agreements that seldom pan out.

So enter the MicroSquirt module. Buy it, it's licensed. Want to base a product off MS technology? Buy the uS Module and plug it into your board and you're licensed. B&G get there's, you get yours, and the end user gets their cool solution.
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Old 07-28-2009, 11:06 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by evank View Post
Does that mean you'll finally make a plug-and-play MS for the NB and MSM?
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Originally Posted by elesjuan View Post
lol..

Your youtube video is great. I'm assuming there will quickly be a miata connector available? Forgive me if one listed is compatible.. I only know it as the "64 pin connector."

Very interested!!!
The 1990-2000 Miata ConnectorBoard with Connector will be included in the N72 kits. That's the same connector used on our MM9495 and MM9697 MSPNP units. Later Miata's use a different connector I'm going to have to track down.

So, for the NB and MSM, you can go ahead and build a DIYPNP for it now.

Or, to finish answering your question, yes we still intend to develop an MSPNP for these cars. R&D time doesn't come cheap, but as you can see we've been working towards something, and that something will make R&D for new MSPNP's (MS2/E based) simpler too.

We're working on VVT control too. Got a test car lined up and an engineer working on it already.

But now we're talking MSPNP.

MSPNP = the full, polished, solid base mapped, ready to rock PNP ECU you all know and love .

DIYPNP = kit form PNP EMS you build to suit your application, we just made it easier to do it with a broad featureset and properly cased. With the major plus that a single part# can be built out to fit a stack of cars.


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Originally Posted by richyvrlimited View Post
Well I'm sold.... When is it going to be available?
I'm hoping to be able to release them in the next 2-3 weeks. Sooner would be great, but that should be realistic.


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Funny video too btw well I laughed!
Yeah, I'm a dork.
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Old 07-28-2009, 06:26 PM   #23
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I liked the video theme music, and the dude doing a kick flip with the DIYPNP. Let's talk price. If I wanted to order this right now, for my '99, what would it cost me? What does it come with?
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Old 07-28-2009, 07:17 PM   #24
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ETA for release is mid-August. We're really just waiting on the bulk of the MicroSquirt Modules and the cases to come in, both of which should be in in the next week. Then we have to build out the kits, and in the meantime we're continuing to test in every situation we can imagine.

In fact, my 95 Miata is very likely going to be converted to COP (actually Coil Per Plug as the coils will be remote) tomorrow or Thursday. But true sequential CPP, not wasted spark COP like you can achieve just by wiring COPs up to the stock computer or another wasted spark output system.

We'll test wasted spark at the same time BTW. And then we'll convert back to stock, I think I'm going to sell this car soon.

Cost-- So far all I've really said is 'a couple hundred less than the MSPNP units'. I'm trying to keep it as reasonable as possible, and currently it's looking like it's going to settle at about $460 per kit.

That will include everything. The case, all components to assemble the unit including the MicroSquirt module, map sensor, and everything else to build out the mainboard. Jumper wire, heatsink paste, etc. The connector board will be included also, as well as the PCB-side ECU connector itself. Basically the idea is, similar to our other kits, to give you everything you need except tools, solder, and time.
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Old 07-28-2009, 10:08 PM   #25
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I assume there might even be a "group buy?"
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Old 07-28-2009, 10:26 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdgen View Post
I assume there might even be a "group buy?"
We are truly the cheapest sons of bitches in the automotive world here...

I've been thinking a lot lately about which ECU I'll be building to go with my in-progress engine. It's tempting to wait for the MS3 CPU, though this new board looks appealing as well. I'd have to go with the "no connector board" option of course, as my stock ECU harness is pretty much non-existent at this point, and when the time comes, I'll probably just yank the whole damn front harness out of the car for as few wires of it as I'm using anymore.

Then there's a part of me that just wants to say **** it and build the whole ECU on a protoboard. Path of most resistance, or something like that...
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Old 07-28-2009, 10:39 PM   #27
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The no connector board option is what I'm thinking. I'd like the ease of a parallel setup still, and let the stock ECU run all the **** like IAC.
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Old 07-29-2009, 05:44 PM   #28
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Update guys- (for those of you not following the FB page updates)

True 4cyl COP conversion works beautifully. We just converted our shop '95 Miata test car over to sequential coil-per-plug ignition using the DIYPNP with it's four internal BIP373's and four MSD coils. We also tested wasted spark using the onboard BIP373's as well as that can put more noise on the board so was a worthy test, and everything performed flawlessly.

Sad we aren't leaving the car that way, we're selling it soon though-- my brother wants to turbo it.
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Old 07-31-2009, 10:44 AM   #29
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We need pics, you insensitive clod!

Jim
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Old 07-31-2009, 10:56 AM   #30
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It's nothing pretty-- since it wasn't a permanent install it's some MSD coil packs screwed to a 1x2 and 5 wires running to the back (power to the battery and four triggers). But I'll post pics after I do payroll.
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Old 07-31-2009, 12:01 PM   #31
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Default DIYPNP Coil Per Plug testing

Alright, payroll's done and I'm broke.

Everything's rough, no case, wired the ignition outputs straight to the board in the name of speed of testing instead of through the DB15 (though we have fat traces on 9 of the DB15 traces, there won't be any issues there). Coils on a hunk of wood under the hood. Wire running alongside the car, and scope wires everywhere testing everything.




PCB Setup with 4 Ignition Outputs-- Notice the jumpers next to the IGBTs, to enable the IGBT's you just jumper them in and then wire up the output.






Ready to wire up the triggers...


And lastly, firing it up (sorry, crappy video I know):
http://diyautotune.com/diypnp/images...p/MVI_0004.avi


We were charging these coils to 13.1 amps with 4ms dwell, then to torture the crap out of our board we cranked them to 8ms dwell (max allowed), almost 4ms of that was current limited. That means it's doing nothing but creating heat and would have burned up a VB921 in about 15 seconds. These BIP's are tough though, with these torture settings we measured them maxing out at 270*F surface temp at idle and they didn't hiccup. So then we rev'd it up and held it there for maybe 2-3 minutes, goal being to heat them up more and see when they'd quit. (This is all in full sequential coil-per-plug mode BTW). They topped out at 340*F, and they were at that point starting to act up a little with the occasional misfire and you could see that the coils were no longer properly charging in the scope trace. Kept running though, just with minor misfires. Set it back to idle and 4ms dwell, and 5min later the BIPs were cool again (170*F, they were still cooling down a bit) and the car was running beautifully.


After all of this we reconfigured the board for wasted spark output using the same BIP373's and Coils, and again had a perfect test.
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Old 08-14-2009, 05:32 PM   #32
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FYI guys-- The DIYPNP EMS kits for the N42 and N76 connectors are now available.

DIYPNP MegaSquirt by DIYAutoTune.com
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Old 08-20-2009, 12:06 PM   #33
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BTW-- we're running a bit of a promo here-- You could save as much as $125: DIYPNP Promo Offer
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Old 08-21-2009, 07:14 AM   #34
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Any chance we could see the connector for the 2001-2005 Miatas at some point?

Jim
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Old 08-21-2009, 08:56 AM   #35
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We've got our eye on it. I suspect the demand is there and really all it takes is A) Demand B) Suitability to vehicle C) Availability of the connector.

We've got 4 more releases in the pipeline right now and more we're looking into more daily.
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Old 08-22-2009, 05:07 AM   #36
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Both Boomsland and Autosport Wiring have this connector, so it should be readily available.

Jim
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Old 08-22-2009, 02:21 PM   #37
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None of the suppliers in the US stock the 01 connector or its variants that I know of. I suspect whoever wants one will have to order many or wait a long time or both.
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Old 08-23-2009, 02:38 AM   #38
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was alternator control an option as well, or does a separate circuit need to be built for it still?
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Old 08-24-2009, 04:07 PM   #39
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It will need a separate circuit for alternator control - we made sure to give you plenty of room to add things like that.
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Old 08-25-2009, 03:06 AM   #40
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This is great. The time from idea2prototype2market for such a small company is impressive. I salute you guys.
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