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Old 07-24-2009, 05:28 PM   #1
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Default DIYPNP- the do it yourself Plug-n-play EMS for your car

Guys-- I know we've been a little quiet lately bat that hasn't been because we were sitting on our hands.

We've designed a new MicroSquirt Module (read: MS2/Extra) based DIY Plug-N-Play EMS called, well, the DIYPNP. For you guys that don't mind doing a little of the work yourself, you've got a VERY solid platform to build a PNP on and the price will be very favorable compared to the MSPNP products. Those will continue to be offered of course as a solution that has a DIY element at all doesn't make sense for everyone, but for many of you saving $200+ will be a good option, and the featureset on this thing? Very nice.

I've just recently begun to leak a bit of info out on a yet-to-be-released product. We're still in testing, but it won't be long now I believe as all testing is going well. My MR2 and a 1995 Miata are running great on this new box right now.

The leak began on Facebook, so for more details, you can follow our Facebook page. 'Become a Fan' and you'll get updates as we release more. We have a video coming soon that shows just how this thing goes together. Here's that link: http://www.facebook.com/pages/DIYAut...7395932?ref=mf
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Old 07-24-2009, 05:33 PM   #2
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Good to see you around, Jerry. Your Facebook link is broken, but it's easy enough to find (search DIYAutotune.com)
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Old 07-24-2009, 05:39 PM   #3
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Thanks Sav for the callout. Just fixed the link above.

Hope all is going well with you man!
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Old 07-24-2009, 05:43 PM   #4
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Hmm nice, I will be in the market for something like this in the next month or two.
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Old 07-24-2009, 05:45 PM   #5
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that's just plain clever.
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Old 07-25-2009, 10:14 AM   #6
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very very cool
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Old 07-27-2009, 06:07 PM   #7
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Old 07-27-2009, 08:48 PM   #8
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I've heard about the Microsquirt, and it's based on the MS2? So I'm guessing I could get this apparatus to work with my '99 and all the stock sensors, especially the crank trigger, perhaps even in a parallel setup? This just might be worth while for me to dive into.
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Old 07-27-2009, 09:03 PM   #9
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I'm a bit confused.

From what I can tell, this is essentially a Rev 4.0 PCA. IOW, a board containing multiple injector and ignition drivers, two trigger input circuits, a high-current IAC driver, relay drivers, etc., into which a Megasquirt CPU (in this case, a Microsquirt) is plugged, forming a complete, universal ECU which is ready to run without having to perform a bunch of mods. Right?

Several months ago I proposed designing exactly the same thing. I was basically told "No, you can't do that. B&G hold basic patents on fire & the wheel and they won't let you."

What the heck am I missing here?
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Old 07-27-2009, 09:20 PM   #10
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I guess you contacted B&G directly? I know we've talked about things in the pasts, heck, including job possibilities even at one point, but I don't recall being in the middle of that discussion.

That said I'm not sure of the details of what you proposed were, but I know that B&G have people come to them constantly, often promising the world and seldom delivering. I wouldn't suggest you'd be one of those, I'm just letting you in on the perspective I have from talking to them, and that's the general feeling they often have. People come to them several times a week offering to layout a new board and sell a million units. Hasn't happened yet. It's not that noone was ever given the chance, they worked with some initially and things just never seemed to work out, though lots of money got spent on attorneys and licenses and whatnot. So, enter the MicroSquirt module. Now we all have the freedom to do whatever we want based on MS technology, and B&G worked hard to make the module as useful as possible. At one point scrapping a whole run of them because we reviewed and found a few signals that they didn't bring out from the processor that we knew people would want to use. So they scrapped the v2.1 modules (gave a few away and sold a few super cheap at the meet) and designed the v2.2 module that brings every bit of I/O out to headers. That's where the second header came from, the 2x5. So, here's an example of what can be done. It won't be the last, and it won't be our last. We have the first solution out there because, well, we did all of the beta testing on the v2.2 modules for B&G and this is the board we did it on. In fact we're still getting results back to them, though it's been perfect so far. Only have a couple outputs left to test.

There's no conspiracy to keep anyone down man. You've always been a great contributor Joe and I think there are many (myself included) that appreciate your help out here particularly in the Miata community. The modules are here now to fill the gap so that every enterprising individual in the world that wants a license agreement doesn't need one, they have a ready to rock option. Heck, we move more B&G product than anyone in the world. We could have gotten a license if we pursued it. We chose not to though and rather to work within this framework they setup and it's not bad at all. I think we've got a rockin' little box here that alot of people are going to love.
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Old 07-27-2009, 09:32 PM   #11
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No, I spoke with a couple of people on the various forums about doing a "Rev 4.0" PCA, and got so bummed out about it afterwards that I never even bothered contacting Bruce or Al. Seemed at the time like it was a dead idea. I wasn't even planning to sell the board, just thought I'd build one for myself and then give away the design file to whoever wanted it.

Still, glad to see you guys have brought it to market. Any reason you chose to use the Microsquirt module as opposed to a regular MS2 CPU?
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:02 PM   #12
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Primarily licensing and choosing to work inside of the framework they had put in place and as an example of what could be done. If I based if off of an MS2 CPU running MS code I'd need a license agreement again. But this way you buy the 'license' with each module so you're covered and no license is needed.

I really haven't been looking at it as a PCBv4.0 or anything like that, but as a board designed specifically for this DIYPNP product to try to make PNP ECUs even more affordable, and to support the hardcore DIY community that appreciates the DIY 'some assembly required' kits that allow allow of flexibility. I saw this as a way to offer kit-based PNPs for mountains of cars in a very short period of time. The first three connectors meets the needs of 41+ cars and I've found a couple more I need to verify that I think should be on that list.

Now, don't get me wrong-- it has since occurred to me that I could slap a DB37 or an AmpSeal (or one of each, both pin'd out in parallel so you can use either which one you want) on a connectorboard and offer a a pretty feature packed MS2 ECU in the same form factor. And, yes that's likely. It wouldn't be the 'PCBv4' though as the MS PCBs are B&G products and this is ours, but relies on their module as the heart.
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdgen View Post
I've heard about the Microsquirt, and it's based on the MS2? So I'm guessing I could get this apparatus to work with my '99 and all the stock sensors, especially the crank trigger, perhaps even in a parallel setup? This just might be worth while for me to dive into.
Sure thing-- It's really designed more for a PNP replacement than a parallel, but it allows the freedom to do what you want with it.
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:34 PM   #14
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Would this fit into the stock ecu case? If so, it would be great for autocrossers who have to conform to the rule "you can have any ecu as long as it fits in the stock case". Honda guys have been able to do it for years with their overly massive ecu cases.
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Old 07-27-2009, 11:28 PM   #15
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rharris19-The MS2/Extra codebase doesn't support mass air flow sensors. The standard MS2 code supports MAF, but not our CAS. So at the moment we're stuck with MS1/Extra.

The Honda guys aren't fitting megasquirt in their cases... they're chipping the OEM ECU.

That said, there are already a bunch of us with megasquirts in our OEM cases.
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Old 07-27-2009, 11:47 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoundSoul View Post
If I based if off of an MS2 CPU running MS code I'd need a license agreement again. But this way you buy the 'license' with each module so you're covered and no license is needed.
Hmm. This confuses me, but at the same time it likely explains why I got poo-pooed so hard earlier this year.

Truth is, I haven't a clue what the B&G licensing arrangement is like. I'd always assumed that the purchase of an MS1 or MS2 CPU, with the base code pre-loaded, constituted a license to use the system. If this isn't the case, then for an end-user, what exactly does constitute the license? The bare PCB?

I also never realized that the Microsquirt was available as an OEM-style module, I've only ever seen it in a case with an AmpSeal connector. Learn something new every day.
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Old 07-28-2009, 12:11 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoundSoul View Post
The first three connectors meets the needs of 41+ cars and I've found a couple more I need to verify that I think should be on that list.
Does that mean you'll finally make a plug-and-play MS for the NB and MSM?
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Old 07-28-2009, 02:15 AM   #18
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lol..

Your youtube video is great. I'm assuming there will quickly be a miata connector available? Forgive me if one listed is compatible.. I only know it as the "64 pin connector."

Very interested!!!
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Old 07-28-2009, 02:28 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evank View Post
Does that mean you'll finally make a plug-and-play MS for the NB and MSM?
In for hopes and dreams of a better tomorrow for us mazdaspeed driving ------s. ^_^b
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Old 07-28-2009, 06:25 AM   #20
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Well I'm sold.... When is it going to be available?

Funny video too btw well I laughed!
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