How's MS holding up to weather? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


MEGAsquirt A place to collectively sort out this megasquirt gizmo

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-26-2015, 09:25 PM   #1
Boosting since 1984
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
stefanst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Levittown
Posts: 1,198
Total Cats: 68
Default How's MS holding up to weather?

I'm seriously considering starting an Eliminator build next summer. Of course the engine will be running off an MS.
Target of the build is: Cheap first, power later.

Now when you run an Exocet, Eliminator or Ghettocet, the driver and subsequently the ECU may be exposed to weather-conditions. Rain comes to mind.

I don't much trust the DB37 connectors used in MS. Any ideas how they hold up to getting wet? Any suggestions for a different type connector? Something waterproof maybe? Making an adapter-board seems pretty easy.

Please don't suggest MS-Pro. The price difference to the MS3 is just too much.
stefanst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2015, 09:54 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 1,196
Total Cats: 12
Default

Build the standard MS with standard connectors, then mount it within a semi-water-tight box. Have the only non-sealed opening be at the bottom, with the wires going up inside.

That way you can use standard connectors, but water intrusion will basically be eliminated.



I'm thinking of a sealed aluminum box, with the only opening at the bottom. Two plates with a small semi-circle cut in them mate together to form the bottom. The wires go through this now full circle opening.
2ndGearRubber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2015, 10:06 PM   #3
Sadfab Union President
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,690
Total Cats: 113
Default

You could mount it inside a totally wateright box, then use a firewall bulkhead connector or two. I'm thinking totally ditch the DB37 and stock case and just mount **** up in the custom box, wire straight to the pcb off the bulkhead connector.

Amazon.com: Delphi Weatherpack Bulkhead Kit 22-Pin 18-14 ga.: Automotive Amazon.com: Delphi Weatherpack Bulkhead Kit 22-Pin 18-14 ga.: Automotive
deezums is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2015, 10:20 PM   #4
Boosting since 1984
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
stefanst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Levittown
Posts: 1,198
Total Cats: 68
Default

^ Like that bulkhead connector. I'd say waterprrof box from Polycase.com and that BH it is.
stefanst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2015, 11:18 PM   #5
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,999
Total Cats: 1,466
Default

Orrrr, you could get the ms3 pro which is fully waterproof.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2015, 11:53 PM   #6
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,201
Total Cats: 2,584
Default

/\ that


Attached Thumbnails
How's MS holding up to weather?-80-ms3_pro_swimming_044d736da0573677af62699cd267c60f9c225df6.jpg  
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2015, 12:00 AM   #7
Boosting since 1984
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
stefanst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Levittown
Posts: 1,198
Total Cats: 68
Default

MS3 Pro: $1200
MS3/MS3X: $500

The difference is a set of Bilsteins with coilovers. Or a manifold and downpipe (I have the rest needed for a turbo setup for the eliminator)
At $800 or so, I would consider the Pro. The current price-tag is just way out of my league.
stefanst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2015, 01:04 AM   #8
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Delicious and Moist.
Posts: 26,328
Total Cats: 1,926
Default

One way to weatherproof non-weatherproof connectors is to smear silicone grease all over both sides of the connection before mating them. Silicone spray can be easily shot into the pins of the connector first, followed by grease to fill up the remaining space.

It's messy, but this is how we treat RF connectors which go up on the top of a tower and are thus difficult to access for repair years down the road.

A better solution, obviously, is to mount the ECU in an area where it's not likely to get wet. Like inside a box. If you really want to be awesome, put it into a totally sealed box, and make a short wiring harness to go from a DB-37 to a properly weatherproofed connector, and mount that connector through the side of the box.
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2015, 01:06 AM   #9
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,999
Total Cats: 1,466
Default

I really like that display lol.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2015, 01:08 AM   #10
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,797
Total Cats: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanst View Post
MS3 Pro: $1200
MS3/MS3X: $500

The difference is a set of Bilsteins with coilovers. Or a manifold and downpipe (I have the rest needed for a turbo setup for the eliminator)
At $800 or so, I would consider the Pro. The current price-tag is just way out of my league.
FWIW, it's more than just a plastic case and better connectors. I 100% respect working within a budget, just mentioning it in case the other benefits to the MS3 PRO would be useful in your build.

What Joe said to do is what I would do if I had more time than money and needed my MS3X to be waterproof.
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2015, 09:27 AM   #11
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,900
Total Cats: 1,792
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
I 100% respect working within a budget, just mentioning it in case the other benefits to the MS3 PRO would be useful in your build.
What would be the other benefits (beyond having to build it yourself)?

Last edited by Braineack; 11-27-2015 at 10:31 AM.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2015, 10:29 AM   #12
Boosting since 1984
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
stefanst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Levittown
Posts: 1,198
Total Cats: 68
Default

So what Joe is saying: when in doubt: lube....

I think I'll go the sealed box with a weather-proof bulkhead connector route. May or may not lube the bulkhead connector.
stefanst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2015, 12:11 PM   #13
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,797
Total Cats: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
What would be the other benefits (beyond having to build it yourself)?
MS3 PRO has really good input filtering for cam/crank signals for example. No pots to adjust like on a MS3X, just hit the key and it works.

Input filter for other sensors (air, coolant, etc) are all perfectly smooth. I've seen plenty of datalogs from other ECU's where they are jumpy, my MS3 PRO's are perfectly smooth/stable.

See Ben's post here

https://www.miataturbo.net/ecus-tuni...a-2-7-a-86755/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
MSPNP Pro uses near identical base hardware as the MS3-Pro. That hardware is miles ahead of traditional MS3X type ECUs and all other MegaSquirt ECUs that use B&G daughter cards in all measurable areas (efficiency, ruggedness, input and output buffering, low/high voltage stability, it's even smaller and lighter). I have numerous customer reports of replacing MS3X with MS3-Pro and picking up power.
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2015, 01:51 PM   #14
Sadfab Union President
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,690
Total Cats: 113
Default

IOW, marketing bullshit.
deezums is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2015, 01:53 PM   #15
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,999
Total Cats: 1,466
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deezums View Post
IOW, marketing bullshit.
Kind of. The crank/cam input circuit really is significantly better. I'm actually going to be building my own version of it soon because of some of the issues that the normal inputs have. It uses a maxim VR chip, which is much better. The MS3/3x works well and is a good deal, but the MS3Pro is another level.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2015, 03:33 PM   #16
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,797
Total Cats: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
Kind of. The crank/cam input circuit really is significantly better. I'm actually going to be building my own version of it soon because of some of the issues that the normal inputs have. It uses a maxim VR chip, which is much better. The MS3/3x works well and is a good deal, but the MS3Pro is another level.
In all seriousness, MS sucked for years, slowly got better, and with MS3 PRO it's actually a well designed and executed part even when compared to other high level aftermarket ECUs. I was one of the first to buy it when it was released, cause I had fought through all kinds of stupid problems with my MS2E for years and always wanted a better ECU. I've used MS2E, MS3X, and MS3 PRO, and I'll never use a MS3X again.
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2015, 04:23 PM   #17
Boosting since 1984
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
stefanst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Levittown
Posts: 1,198
Total Cats: 68
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
I'll never use a MS3X again.
May I ask why?
I installed my MS3X a few years back and it worked pretty much right out of the gate.

I also installed one in a '64 F100 on a 351 from a 97 F250 without a hitch.

Both cases took a little fiddling with the Crank or Cam sensors, but that was all I'd consider even slightly problematic.
stefanst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2015, 05:50 PM   #18
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,797
Total Cats: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanst View Post
May I ask why?
I installed my MS3X a few years back and it worked pretty much right out of the gate.

I also installed one in a '64 F100 on a 351 from a 97 F250 without a hitch.

Both cases took a little fiddling with the Crank or Cam sensors, but that was all I'd consider even slightly problematic.
Basically all the reasons Ben listed. It's a better part, better designed, better connectors, better case, inputs are smooth vs all my experience with MS2/MS3 they were noisy. I've used the cheaper versions and they work, I'm not knocking them. Ran them for years. But I won't buy one again when there's a much better one out.
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2015, 06:27 PM   #19
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,900
Total Cats: 1,792
Default

Ive run a MS1, MS2, DIYPNP, MS3, MS3x, MS3PRO.

I'd never run a MS1 or MS2 again.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2015, 06:34 PM   #20
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,201
Total Cats: 2,584
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
Basically all the reasons Ben listed. It's a better part, better designed, better connectors, better case, inputs are smooth vs all my experience with MS2/MS3 they were noisy. I've used the cheaper versions and they work, I'm not knocking them. Ran them for years. But I won't buy one again when there's a much better one out.
I've done a back to back comparo with the pro vs the 3x.

I haven't noticed a SINGLE one of these "improvements". Not one. Not a single time.

In fact, the biggest problem, with my PRO, was the mind-numbingly STUPID prehistoric serial connection to the computer, that required an extra usb/serial adapter, and kept losing connection a billion times. Not one of my 3x's ever had this problem with their USB cable.

I just received another freshly built Rev unit that I'll be installing and tuning on Thumpetto's 01. I'll gladly post my feedback of that one too, and take my words back if the above stated personal experience is changed within these next couple weeks.
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anyone have a useable 1.8 clutch/throwout/pilot bearing for cheap/free? x_25 WTB 11 12-21-2015 09:39 AM
Engine dies on acceleration mazdaaz3 DIY Turbo Discussion 18 12-11-2015 08:45 AM
MS3 no-spark (REV built) 2ndGearRubber MEGAsquirt 49 12-01-2015 05:21 PM
Generating AFR target setting for 1.6 NA Johnny Tater MSPNP 3 11-27-2015 07:30 PM
N00b from Denver, planning a low-budget turbo build discontinuuity Meet and Greet 1 11-23-2015 07:27 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:55 PM.