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Old 07-14-2008, 02:16 PM   #41
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25 watt is fine - remember, they can take a long time to heat up. 15-20 watt is probably ideal, about 25 I'd start to worry it's too much.

Since all your parts are new, you shouldn't have too much trouble. If I really am worried about cooking something, I'll put flux on it - helps the solder flow/wet.

A couple things: Make sure the soldering iron is "tinned", meaning there's a thin coat of solder on it, if it looks rusty and nasty it won't transfer the heat well. A little trick I use is to put a small dot of melted solder on the iron tip first, since this will transfer heat well to the components.

I always go back and put those cones on as well. I know I'm not supposed to, but it just looks right. Truthfully, you only have to "worry" about burning up something if you have no idea it's an issue. The longer the lead, the more room there is for it to cool along the leg.



Check this: http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/solder.htm
It's a soldering guide. Generally if the surfaces look dull and not smooth (like water would wick on a surface) it's not right.

And here: http://www.radioshack.com/sm-solderi...i-2103242.html
If you're really worried, you can clip something on the leads between where you're putting the heat and the actual device, this will take some of the heat away. Ever hold a part with pliers while soldering? You'll notice it's way harder to do, that's because the heat is going into the pliers.

My advice is don't worry about cooking stuff, yet. Start on more robust parts (resistors, etc) till you get a feel for how to handle the solder. Watch for cracks in the solder, that's a bad joint. I worry a lot more about active stuff like transistors, than I do about LED's, I've never cooked one of those.

As far as if the stim will work, well... The one you have won't simulate the engine. It will simulate the other sensors (O2, TPS, etc). Many of these you can test on the car (with the motor cold, the CLT and IAT will read ~room temp, with the car hot, they'll read something higher. The TPS will move when you step on the gas.

The logic for the inputs you can test with a common voltmeter, if you build it how I said. Leave the DB37 pin floating, and you should see a LOW state at the ECU, ground that pin and you should see HIGH at the ECU. If you get that for both channels, I'd just pull the fuel injector harness plug and crank the motor, see if megatune shows 200-300 RPM steady on the dash. If so, things work, and you won't NEED the stim.

If things aren't going well, an oscilliscope or a jimstim or both will be a big help, but with any luck you won't have that issue.
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Old 07-15-2008, 04:53 AM   #42
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Thanks a lot for your help!! I am not sure what you are talking about in regard to the floating db37 pin. What is that used for? Before I started my stim build I read up on soldering did some practice and I think I should be ok.. Hopefully..
I have another question in regard to static. I am going to get a wrist band tmrw before I continue with my ms build. (I barely started I think I am on step 2) I know I need to watch for static discharge and when building my stim I tried to destatic myself my touching ground. The only thing left for me to do with the stim is the actual chip. I know the chips are definately sensitive to static but what other if any components are sensitive?
Last question... (For now) I am currently following the megamanual instructions... Its ok for me to just build the ms2 to the megamanual instructions specs first.. And then I can do the other mods?
Thanks a lot for your help and thanks in advance!!!
Henry
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Old 07-15-2008, 02:01 PM   #43
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More or less, sure.. Just follow the directions and make the changes. The input stuff you won't use (though I ended up using much of it for things like clutch input) and you'll want to do the output mods as other miatas....


Static can kill parts! But, that said, it very rarely happens. Anything "active" is susceptible. Transistors, op-amps, cpus.... Most are at least somewhat protected these days but it's no reason to count on it. Don't shuffle your feet, and try to pick things up by ground, you should be fine.

Sounds like you're getting on top of this.
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Old 07-15-2008, 02:03 PM   #44
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Thanks a lot for your help!! I am not sure what you are talking about in regard to the floating db37 pin. What is that used for?
Floating = not connected to anything externally. For test purposes, leave the pin disconnected (it'll be pulled up internally) and measure the corresponding input pin at the CPU where you will see a logic low (0v). Then ground the pin externally, and observe a logic high (5v) at the CPU. This is true of the primary ignition input.

Other inputs will vary depending upon how you have them set up. If you use the dual-comparator circuit, the second ignition input will behave the same way. If you use the "book" circuit (just two resistors) then it will be opposite.
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Old 07-16-2008, 05:39 AM   #45
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thanks for the help guys! i will just finish the build and go from their. i tested the led's on the stim and they work! hopefully so do the other components.. i also showed the ms that i have started on to my friend who has experience soldering... and he says that the solderin is good!!! he said he was even surprised how good!! lol
anyway. i am working a lot in the next few days but hopefully i will have it fully built rather soon, hopefully in the next few days!!
cant wait to get it on the car and tuned!!
thanks alot again guys!
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Old 07-16-2008, 02:40 PM   #46
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I've found the guys who are afraid of soldering tend to do a really good job. :-) Keep the fear!
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Old 07-16-2008, 04:39 PM   #47
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I've found the guys who are afraid of soldering tend to do a really good job. :-) Keep the fear!
lol yes! i am petrified!
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Old 07-16-2008, 11:47 PM   #48
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Damn it man.

Reading your thread is going to get me to spend money, gain frustration, and make everyone else around these parts annoyed with me.
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Old 07-17-2008, 05:52 AM   #49
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Another question.. i still have just barely started my ms build. not really far in at all. i was looking over braineaks build guide and the instructions on megamanual.com and looking at the different maps... its obvious that Braineaks board diagrams is missing ALOT of stuff. i know i need all the ms2 specific stuff... but can i leave the other stuff out? would be just easier to only solder the stuff that braineak has on his board and then add what else i need since i am building an ms2? i just feel like if i solder less.. i will have kit on car faster and will have much less of a head ache when i am all done!
thanks a ton guys for your help!
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Old 07-17-2008, 01:29 PM   #50
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I debated this - there's a lot you are not going to use... And some stuff you're going to want to add (like line outs for the fans, for VICS). in the end I put everything in, just so I could glance at the schematic and know that it's the way my car is built.

More or less it's a personal choice - only make sure you know what something does before you choose to leave it off. You might find out later you need it. Also, the first 5 componants take you an hour, the rest of the board takes you another: i.e. it goes much faster once you get going. It's all the jumpers, decision making, and wire running that takes a long time. Putting a few chips into holes already made for them only takes a few minutes, so don't sweat it from a time perspective.

Though if you DO want to go through the schematic and learn what everything does, you'll be a better megasquirter for it!
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Old 07-19-2008, 02:09 AM   #51
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i pretty much completed part 1 of the build but i have a question in regard to an optional step.
if you can reference the instructions: http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/V3assemble.htm
its step 22.
it says:
1. "If you are going to use a stepper style IAC (such as the GM IAC), you need to connect jumpers to bring the controller signals out to the DB37: " i believe i dont need to do this but do i?
2. "If you will be using an ignition output signal to control a coil or ignition module with MS-II, you will, likely be directed to jumper JS10 to... " what do i have to do here?
3. "If you will be using CAN communication between boards (MS-II and GPIO, for example), you should also jumper JS6 to SPR1/CANH and JS8 to SPR2/CANL " do i have to do this?
4. "So for MS-II implementation, the following connector signal jumpers are suggested... " since i am going to be running ms2.. what do i need to do here?
i know i am not supposed to leave things out i am not sure about so i want to make sure all the things go in that are required. thanks alot for the help!
i am currently on step 26... is it required though to do all the testing with the serial connection? did you guys just do this after words?
looking ahead.. for step 50. do i do the Hall/optical/etc or the VR circuit. the second one seems like the one i am supposed to do but i am not sure.. would i just follow step 50.b? for 51? do i not have to do that as well since i am only doing the 50.b? or am i completely wrong here?
thanks alot for everyones help!! this is definately seeming to be more of a managable task since i am gettings such great help here! again thanks alot to everyone!

Last edited by Serper3; 07-19-2008 at 02:33 AM.
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Old 07-19-2008, 02:56 AM   #52
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1. "If you are going to use a stepper style IAC (such as the GM IAC), you need to connect jumpers to bring the controller signals out to the DB37: " i believe i dont need to do this but do i?
No. You will instead do the "purple box" mod in step 62 which involves installing a TIP120 in place of Q4.
2. "If you will be using an ignition output signal to control a coil or ignition module with MS-II, you will, likely be directed to jumper JS10 to... " what do i have to do here?
Nothing. Instead, follow the instructions under "Option 1: Spark Output to factory Miata ignitors" at this site: http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_arti...azda_miata.htm
3. "If you will be using CAN communication between boards (MS-II and GPIO, for example), you should also jumper JS6 to SPR1/CANH and JS8 to SPR2/CANL " do i have to do this?
Nope. CAN is worthless. Save those pins for other uses.
4. "So for MS-II implementation, the following connector signal jumpers are suggested... " since i am going to be running ms2.. what do i need to do here?
Ignore that section completely. It does not matter at all which functions wind up getting assigned to which DB37 pins, and not a single one of the functions listed in that block are of any use on a Miata. Instead, you need to worry about:
1- Dual trigger inputs, CMP and CKP. The MS2Extra writeup on this is totally wrong, BTW.
2- Dual spark outputs, as noted above.
3- Fan drive (relay driver)
4- Knock input (assuming KnockSenseMS)
i know i am not supposed to leave things out i am not sure about so i want to make sure all the things go in that are required. thanks alot for the help!
There is no harm in building the whole thing completely to original spec, and then modifying later. I'm doing this right now on an MS2 for Chris. The total number of parts you remove later is pretty minimal, and it's probably worth it just to build the whole damn thing so you know you didn't miss anything.
looking ahead.. for step 50. do i do the Hall/optical/etc or the VR circuit. the second one seems like the one i am supposed to do but i am not sure.. would i just follow step 50.b? for 51? do i not have to do that as well since i am only doing the 50.b? or am i completely wrong here?
I suggest you do neither 50 not 51, and instead build Abe's circuit. If you want to build one of the MS circuits, build 50a (hall/opto). Miatas do not have points.

Beyond the basic assembly docs, get familiar with this site: http://www.msextra.com/ms2extra/ though as I said, ignore the instructions for '99-'00 Miata ignition input. They're completely bogus.


Did you decide whether to run standalone or parallel? It doesn't change much, but it will change a few things.
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Old 07-19-2008, 04:57 AM   #53
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So basically I don't have to build most of those optional steps but I might as well.. This makes sense and is easy enough. As far as the other things I need to build I am kind of lost as to what to do and how to do it. I am pretty good with following directions but in this case I really don't know where to look.
I did decide to go stand alone for simplicity in wiring the harness up to the car. I just want to have a clean and interchangeable from ms to stock configuration.
But bascically for now I can just pretty much follow the instructions on megamanual.com for the whole build? Even all the optional steps minus the jumping? And I can worry about the jumping when I am all done?
Thank you very much!!
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Old 07-19-2008, 10:51 AM   #54
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Pretty much. Like I said, when you get to 62, it'll be obvious that you need to do the IAC mod. You can skip the steps I mentioned in 2 and 3. When it comes time for your sensor inputs, you can either do Abe's circuit, or this one: http://www.msextra.com/ms2extra/MS2-Extra_4g63.htm

Once you're done with the base build and you've stim tested it, you can start doing mods like the fan driver and such.
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Old 07-19-2008, 08:52 PM   #55
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I vote we either sticky this or put it in the archives after all is said and done. There is much information in here for someone like me (who may be revisiting this thread in a few months).
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Old 07-19-2008, 09:22 PM   #56
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I vote we either sticky this or put it in the archives after all is said and done. There is much information in here for someone like me (who may be revisiting this thread in a few months).
i vote someone does another write up with instructions like braineak's specifically for the 99+.
this thread i am sure would be nice for people to reference.. especially for the complete noobs/electronically challenged people like me. it is not clear enough and to the point enough to be a sticky. when i finish mine.. depending on if it works , and how complete of an understanding i will have, i can definately try to do a write up on all of this, or at least what i did so others can easily replicate my steps. but i think this thread will definately alleviate alot of the questions people will have. again thanks to all the guys who are helping me with this though!
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Old 07-19-2008, 09:51 PM   #57
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I looked around and I found Abe's install thread, but I cannot find exactly what he did to use the 99-00 sensors. Anyone want to point me to the right place?
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Old 07-19-2008, 10:57 PM   #58
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I looked around and I found Abe's install thread, but I cannot find exactly what he did to use the 99-00 sensors. Anyone want to point me to the right place?
Posts 17 and 18 of this very thread. The pin numbers/names in the one I posted are for MS1, but the circuit itself is the same as in Abe's post, which has the correct pin IDs for MS2.
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Old 07-20-2008, 07:21 PM   #59
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Sweet man, thanks.

I'm glad I didn't get the STUF N00B response.
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Old 07-20-2008, 07:39 PM   #60
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Sweet man, thanks.

I'm glad I didn't get the STUF N00B response.
Ok,

STFU,
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