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Old 08-02-2008, 03:17 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by Serper3 View Post
(referring to DIY Spark output mod)

Do i still need to do that? (I think so, since the abe mod is for the inputs, we need an outputs mod too right?)
Sorry for the delay- writing this from a motel room in Arizona...

Yes, you need to do a mod for the two spark outputs, in addition to a mod for the trigger inputs. Fortunately, the spark out mod is quite simple, requires nothing but a few resistors, and is not contested- IOW, there's only one way to do it, everyone agrees that it's the "correct" way, and it's reliable.
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Old 08-02-2008, 03:51 AM   #122
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Sorry for the delay- writing this from a motel room in Arizona...

Yes, you need to do a mod for the two spark outputs, in addition to a mod for the trigger inputs. Fortunately, the spark out mod is quite simple, requires nothing but a few resistors, and is not contested- IOW, there's only one way to do it, everyone agrees that it's the "correct" way, and it's reliable.
Thanks a lot! I greatly appreciate your help and dedication to this forum. I did see your thread about you towing your car.. I don't mean to hijack my own thread but are you moving or vacationing? How did you end up towing the car?
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Old 08-02-2008, 04:59 AM   #123
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All my family lives in the bay area, so you can buy me one in person some day. :-)

I don't want to think about tiens, I have enough troubles thinking about suspension as is!!! OMG.

Anyway, the TL082 is a more user friendly chip I'd say. Good luck with it all, and if you PM me, I'll get an email and probably see it pretty quick.
Sounds good. Unfortunately I got busy today and didnt have time to work on it. Looks like tomorrow if I am not too busy at work, and I can get off early, I will be able to work on it and hopefully at least do all the mods besides the fan mod because i still don't understand that one. I got my adapter thing for my harness today so I want to build that tomorrow but I am not sure how it will go since it seems like the diagrams are missing stuff or something isnt right for my year car but we will see.
Yea definately come up here and we can get some drinks or w.e go on a drive..
Are you having issues with your teins?
As far as the fan mod goes... the symbol in the box.. is that a coil? inductor? Are the diodes supposed to have values? Can you be kind enough to link a Radio Shack part number link? And the Transistor? Where do the ECU and Out go to. Do I not have to worry about that symbol to the right of the out? This now doesnt look too complicated lol. I just need to know what parts to use.
Also, for this mod and the others.. can I use that bread board I got and just keep the components on it and mount it in the case or externally? What if I just get another plain board and use that instead of the bread board? It seems like this would be easier in terms of fitment.
Thanks alot. Maybe this weekend is THE special weekend.
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Old 08-02-2008, 04:15 PM   #124
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1. fan drive. post 104.
Ok, let's see. The fan mod I'll try to look up for you later, I don't think I have it right in that picture. What I don't remember is the polarity of the fan signal, if you need a PNP or NPN or what.

But the "out" double arrow I have means all that is external to the MS, and you don't have to worry about it. The coiley-thing is a relay, which uses a magnetic field from the current to opperate a mechnical switch, it's a good way to let a small current opperate a big load. Ideal for switching 100 watts of fans with a 1 watt transistor.

What I can't remember is if it's a switched ground or a switched positive that runs the fans. I think I ran my fans off the same basic mod you do for the ignition, only you need to add a flyback diode (same old one you use for everything else). But you'll also want to make sure you're using NPN transstors that can handle the extra current. Radio Shack sells some NPN transistors, in a variety pack, for like $2. They'll fit where the transistors supplied by DIY have them for the LEDs in the fronts, the ones you're using for ignition. Upgrade these to something bigger and they become more useful. The radio shack pack will say 800 mA as a current rating, but that's only for the "2n222" or similar that's in there, the other two numbers (of which there are more) are useless, throw them away or put them in a friend's underwear as a practical joke.
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Old 08-02-2008, 06:31 PM   #125
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That sounds good. It seems simpler now for me to understand.. As far as the flyback; that was mentioned earlier but I really have no idea what this is or where this goes.. How many of them are their and are they supposed to come with the kit or do I ned to get em from radio shack. Also, I got a baggie labeled mk pullup.. Should that bag be everything I need in regards the sensor input and spark output mods?
Thanks a lot!
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Old 08-02-2008, 11:37 PM   #126
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I have a question in regard to the values of the resistors for the input mods.. 3k3 is refering to 3.3k ohm? How many watts? at radio shack they have 1 watt, 1/4 watt etc.. I was somewhat confused which ones i needed. They also didnt have some ones I need so I will have to go again. Currently i am just trying to finish the ignitors mods. But anyway, for the 10k, 33k etc. How many watts are those? Does it not matter? And the 3k3 and 4k7 is that like 4.7k ohm?
Thanks,
Henry
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Old 08-03-2008, 12:41 AM   #127
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So made some progress today . Did a lot of driving around though... I whent to frys twice and radio shack twice.. I completed the leads that had to be run to q4 I believe.(The idle valve) I also did the spark outputs and all of this with all the driving took a really long time. I am currently kinda stuck because I am not sure if I have the right resistors for the input mods.. I still need to do all the testing though, the fan mod and build the harness.. Speaking of which did u find that spreadsheet by any chance abe? Thanks again guys and maybe I can finish the other mods and such tmrw? We will see.
After doing some research I can see that a 3k7 for example resistor is 3700 omhs? Is the watt rating important or is their no choice for watts if the ohms are correct?

Last edited by Serper3; 08-03-2008 at 01:53 AM.
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Old 08-03-2008, 02:26 AM   #128
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What are you doing, or what should be done, to send a signal to the NB tach?
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Old 08-03-2008, 03:55 AM   #129
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All good questions. Yes, 3k3 is a terrible standard for 3.3k. I've seen 3R3 for 3.3 ohms, and 3m3 for 3,300 kohm (3.3 M-ohm).

The resistor wattages CAN be very important, but aren't in the slightest for this application, nothing here is flowing more than a few milliamps. So I get the smallest physical ones I can get (to save space on the proto area), or the best tollerance.

Um, you can build everything on the solderless protoboard, ideal for making sure things work. I didn't believe I would get around the block without things vibrating out, but I made it, in fact, I drove it that way for months. I would NOT recommend that, but... yes, build it, and trouble shoot that first. Later you'll solder it into the area by the CPU.

Also, you're going to want at least one more fan-like mod for the VICS vales, gets you a few foot-pounds down low. You can live without it for a while, just remember one more NPN and a few resistors will be going on your proto area space, so save some room!

On my input circuit, I think I ran some 12 where I said 13 ohms, basically the closest thing I could find, fry's was my friend.

Lastly, there's a tach-output option in the MS-II software. You have to build an output circuit, I can't remember if it's +12 or +5 but it's straight forward. I also learned the OEM tach doesn't respond linearly. :-)
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Old 08-03-2008, 04:16 AM   #130
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Thanks, that helps alot!
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbeFM View Post
Lastly, there's a tach-output option in the MS-II software. You have to build an output circuit, I can't remember if it's +12 or +5 but it's straight forward. I also learned the OEM tach doesn't respond linearly. :-)
Is this another exciting mod I have to build? Or is this in the MS build and I already did it? If I do can you perhaps link to a site with instructions?
This build is feeling like its never ending with all these mods and such...
Thanks alot and I am assuming still no luck wth harness spreadsheet?

also, for the fan mod, do you add the NPN the resistors and diodes in the proto area? In the pic you linked earlier it looks like they are right next to the LED which looks complicated. I can see where you jumped a wire though so the trace doesnt burn out...

I have been looking at the harness build.. What happens when a lead from two terminals join into one? I am going off the pics I posted in 115... inj 1&2 join and go into pin 34 and 35? As one signal or does y go into 34 and w into 35? inj 2&4? Into 32 and 33? But TPS is also blue like inj 2 and 4.. i am confused again lol. :(

Last edited by Serper3; 08-03-2008 at 04:42 AM.
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Old 08-03-2008, 11:50 AM   #131
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The MS is using your LED outputs to drive your ign, and there's one more LED unused, that's the one I use for the fans, since the light coming on tells me what it's doing. The NPN (drawn as a PNP, ignore that), diode with a squigle (LED) and 330 ohm resistor are all MS V3.0 "factory". You're really only adding the protection diode. But yes, I built it right there at the edge.

http://abefm.smugmug.com/gallery/420...45627342_bsYcs
I just put two wires into a "Y" shape, and use one big wire from there on out. The reason there are two output pins is to handle high current.

As to all the mods, the MS is a very general purpose device, works with nothing but disrtibutor based chevy V-8's without mods. It's far from the best thing imaginable, but it's certainly pretty good, and you both save money and learn a lot. I'd be giving more electronics lessons except I'm so busy! Look up diodes or NPN transistors on wiki. :-)
-Abe.
P.S. Missed a question. Yes, there's one signal for both injectors. The reason is uses two pins is for current. I only "Y" them together because running 2 wires is more work and takes up more space, and one slightly bigger wire carries more current than two small ones.
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Old 08-03-2008, 12:59 PM   #132
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Under the programmable outputs section in the MS2-Extra Hardware Manual (http://www.msextra.com/ms2extra/MS2-Extra_Hardware.htm), it shows a circuit to drive a relay and what pins can be used to control the circuit, being FIdle, D14, D15, D16, IAC1, IAC2, and Knock Enable. FIdle would be used to control the PWM idle valve, D14 and D15 are used for 4cyl wasted spark, so that leaves D16, IAC1, and IAC2 to control fans, VICS, and one more thing? assuming that Knock Enable will be used for the knock sensor. Is that somewhere along the right lines?
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Old 08-03-2008, 01:14 PM   #133
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Thanks a lot for your help! I know how hard it gets when you get busy and stuff.
Is their any other info for the tach mod? What has to be done for it to work? Or do I not have to do anything because I have already done it earlier with other mods?
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Old 08-03-2008, 08:26 PM   #134
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You do need a tach out - what I don't know is if it's looking for +5 or +12 volts, will find out later....

Yeah - that is about the gyst of the outputs. Just remember inductive loads (coils - relays and injectors) need flyback diodes or you'll burn stuff up when you turn them off.
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Old 08-04-2008, 01:26 AM   #135
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Yeah - that is about the gyst of the outputs. Just remember inductive loads (coils - relays and injectors) need flyback diodes or you'll burn stuff up when you turn them off.
ok, is that because of back emf?

gyst usually means something is being left out... are there other outputs that can be had through modding?
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Old 08-04-2008, 05:42 PM   #136
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There are a limited number of GPIO outputs, what did you have in mind?
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Old 08-08-2008, 01:31 PM   #137
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Quick question: Is the pin I want JS8, or is it JS10? There's mention later in this thread that it is JS10.

Thanks
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Old 08-08-2008, 03:54 PM   #138
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JS10. Use my drawing. The LM393 isn't the best choice, and the labels aren't all correct on that. Probably joe should go edit his drawing, but without a lathe I'm sure he's lost the will to live.

Then again, without a job, maybe he has gained one. :-)
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Old 08-13-2008, 09:35 PM   #139
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Keep it up guys, I am learning along, I will build the same setup on my 2000 miata and Serper will be my guide, LOL.

My Jedi master, lol, Ill be the new Padawan I hope Joe and Abe dont fall into the dark side. Im serious, I am learning and this thread is great. Perfect for clueless Noobs like myself.
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Old 08-14-2008, 02:15 PM   #140
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Keep it up guys, I am learning along, I will build the same setup on my 2000 miata and Serper will be my guide, LOL.

My Jedi master, lol, Ill be the new Padawan I hope Joe and Abe dont fall into the dark side. Im serious, I am learning and this thread is great. Perfect for clueless Noobs like myself.
SuperChargers Be Damned! Hear Hear!

The vile things... I spit on their utterance. (Sorry Pat)
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