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Old 11-12-2011, 09:58 PM   #81
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ya thats understandable then. i mean it doesnt effect me in any way, but theyre explaining it better over there now someone asked about it
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Old 11-12-2011, 10:39 PM   #82
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OK so let's get on with it then! Move along

Next candidates for inclusion:
1. rob's tpsdot/mapdot smoothing patch. Eliminates noisy signal so that our accel enrichments are not accidentally triggered bu signal noise
2. idle valve duty smoothing via a moving hysteretic window, as suggested by Jason. A better way of smoothing out the idle valve movements at/near target without it being a dead zone with a nonreactive PID code.
3. Added an RPM based status 4 cancel option (if RPM < user defined RPM, status 4= 0). This will help save you from a stall if AC is on, by turning it off. Should have some sort of timer before allowing status 4 counter to start again, to allow engine to stabilize. Should not be noticeable in ordinary operation, but a good failsafe, just in case.

Last edited by Greg G; 11-12-2011 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 11-12-2011, 11:48 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg G View Post
OK so let's get on with it then! Move along

Next candidates for inclusion:
1. rob's tpsdot/mapdot smoothing patch. Eliminates noisy signal so that our accel enrichments are not accidentally triggered bu signal noise
2. idle valve duty smoothing via a moving hysteretic window, as suggested by Jason. A better way of smoothing out the idle valve movements at/near target without it being a dead zone with a nonreactive PID code.
3. Added an RPM based status 4 cancel option (if RPM < user defined RPM, status 4= 0). This will help save you from a stall if AC is on, by turning it off. Should have some sort of timer before allowing status 4 counter to start again, to allow engine to stabilize. Should not be noticeable in ordinary operation, but a good failsafe, just in case.
easy tiger jejejej all of that look nice but one step at a time lets not abuse of gslender good grace. That said :P G do you need anything else or is my homework completed?
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Old 11-13-2011, 10:02 AM   #84
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1. is included in the software -- look at lag factors.

2 & 3 -- you're never going to be happy with the idle are you?
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Old 11-13-2011, 10:21 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Santa,

If I may suggest ... the whole idle strategy needs to be re-architected.

The main changes I suggest are these:
- the idle_duty% is: lookup table values + feedforward values + PID

- PID always turned off if the wheels are connected to engine, but all lookup tables and feedforward *always* active in determining duty%

- TPS > 0 exits PID

- Whenever PID (closed loop) exits, I is *always* reset to zero

- the output of I has to have a + and a - limit. That is, e.g. it can never add mroe than say, 15%, or remove more than 10% from the output.

- Whenever closed loop is re-entered, I *always* has to be reset to zero

- Whenever closed loop is re-entered there should be a "closed loop re-entry target RPM adder". This stays for like 1 sec, and then the target ramps down to the normal target over say, 3 sec. For example, target will initially be 1200 RPM upon re-entry. This target will stay for 1 sec, then ramp down to 850 over 3 seconds. This will solve the stopping-at-a-stop-sign idle dip, and it will also work well for stepping on the clutch when lugging the engine at 600 RPM.

- having a good set of feedforward setups is critical: a/c, voltage, IAT, etc.
Have you read the code? This is more or less how it already works aside from not having a clutch switch input or feedforwards.

In MS3 I have AC idleup already there as well. I have a 3d table of mat vs requested target with a z axis of duty to replace the "last good" value as well on the way for 1.1.x. I had no plans of limiting the I term action as in my use of the algorithm it is not necessary, and in some cases until I get rid of the "last good" value will actually keep you from reaching the target.

I am also planning a rewrite that doesn't use PID at all.

Frankly, I would really like you to start looking at how things work before making suggestions. It is obvious you want to contribute and that would save us covering ground that has already been covered. A lot of your suggestions are good, but a lot of the time you not looking how it works then saying "it should work x way" when it already mostly does can be confusing for others who don't know how things work yet.

Ken

Last edited by muythaibxr; 11-13-2011 at 10:42 AM.
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Old 11-13-2011, 11:18 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
1. is included in the software -- look at lag factors.

2 & 3 -- you're never going to be happy with the idle are you?
Not the same thing Brain, robs code keeps response and removes noise.

Lag factors kill nose but nail response too
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Old 11-13-2011, 11:44 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by richyvrlimited View Post
Not the same thing Brain, robs code keeps response and removes noise.

Lag factors kill nose but nail response too
This is correct. But James and I are not sitting to the side ignoring the problem. We have some various test codes we're giving to users to try (y8s for example)

Ken
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Old 11-13-2011, 05:13 PM   #88
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Folks - I'm going to put this whole MegaSquirtSanta thing on ice pending an outcome being discussed in the MSExtra forum on 3.2.0 and the recent licensing changes.
http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=91

My preference would be that Ken/James and co allow me to continue to create test mods within the MSExtra forum and continue to take ideas and mods forward for people to try and test. If that works, then all this will need to cease and move on to the MSExtra forum.

Cool?

G
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Old 11-13-2011, 05:34 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by muythaibxr View Post
I am also planning a rewrite that doesn't use PID at all.
Ken
We going fuzzy logic, Ken? More importantly...are there plans to backport?

Thanks

Greg
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Old 11-13-2011, 07:44 PM   #90
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oh hi. TPSdot test code works very nicely. it's a 3 point median filter and keeps noise below a very low threshold even when the voltage is on the threshold of two bits. at 100 lag factor (ie raw tps).

tomorrow is hopefully the MAPdot version test.
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Old 11-14-2011, 12:06 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
oh hi. TPSdot test code works very nicely. it's a 3 point median filter and keeps noise below a very low threshold even when the voltage is on the threshold of two bits. at 100 lag factor (ie raw tps).

tomorrow is hopefully the MAPdot version test.
Is this the same as Rob's code or something else?

G
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Old 11-14-2011, 01:04 AM   #92
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Is this the same as Rob's code or something else?

G
no it is something different that ken has been working in ms3

Last edited by juansh; 11-14-2011 at 10:53 AM.
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Old 11-14-2011, 12:28 PM   #93
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I don't even know who Rob is. I think it's actually James working on it.

here's a snapshot of the new filter. tpsdot is the NEW filtered value. sensor16 is the "old style" tpsdot. I'm not sure what's causing it to be super flat like it is. Note the additional noise in the filtered value. note more how it's all below any threshold that might trigger enrichments. the old value spikes crazy high without much throttle input but the new value is way more subdued and only moves when it's supposed to.

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MegaSquirtSanta - Custom Modifications / Firmware-tpsdot_median1.png  
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Old 11-14-2011, 03:05 PM   #94
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Is this on a pre-release alpha?
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Old 11-14-2011, 03:21 PM   #95
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The effect of a median filter is simliar to the moving hysteresis window .
I take it the median filter comes between TPS and TPSdot? (and not after TPSdot?)
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Old 11-14-2011, 03:21 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by muythaibxr View Post
Have you read the code? This is more or less how it already works aside from not having a clutch switch input or feedforwards.

In MS3 I have AC idleup already there as well.
<snip>
I'm confused. I was referring to MS2 and you are referring to MS3?
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