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Old 02-27-2013, 09:39 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie View Post
What makes the CD40106 trigger superior to an opto-isolator?
The CD40106 itself has a considerable internal hysteresis. It also guarantees nice, sharp output waveforms, and because it is a voltage-mode device, we can construct rather generous low-pass filters on the inputs to further defeat any incoming noise. (In the schematic, R121 and C120 are the filter on the crank signal, R126 and C125 are the filter on the cam signal.)
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:24 PM   #22
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Under the diagnostics tab.
You're chasing your tail if you haven't taken a composite log first. It will show you (if) you have a sync problem, and if so, which sensor is not coming through.

I am generally amazed at when I see a report of a sync problem on a Miata. I personally have numerous Miata installs under my belt, as in I can't count/remember them all, and have never had a sync problem. As a company, Miata is one of our top selling applications, and I don't recall any sync problems with any of our prebuilt units if correctly installed.
I have attached 2 composite logs with the occurrence happening near the end of both logs. I hope this is what you were looking for. Thanks again for any insight into a resolution to this problem.
Attached Files
File Type: zip 2013-02-27_20.48.25.zip (609.1 KB, 31 views)
File Type: zip 2013-02-27_20.55.16.zip (608.0 KB, 23 views)
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:15 AM   #23
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can you post your msq as well?
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:22 AM   #24
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can you post your msq as well?
I can, but it won't be until later when I get out of work.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:42 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by duffbuster243 View Post
I have attached 2 composite logs with the occurrence happening near the end of both logs. I hope this is what you were looking for. Thanks again for any insight into a resolution to this problem.
That is what I'm looking for, but I'm sorry the log files are too large. Only the first 100 pages will load. There were no trigger problems in the 100 pages that displayed. Can you try to get me some short logs showing it happening?

Also, DON'T run a datalog while running the composite log. They compete for bandwith and I want all resolution in the composite log possible.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:59 AM   #26
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I made shorter:
Attached Files
File Type: csv 2013-02-27_20.48.25_shortened.csv (89.0 KB, 65 views)
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:20 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
I tried really hard several years ago when I was doing the initial install on my '92. Wound up saying "**** it" and building a 36-1 crankwheel setup. (This was, admittedly, a rather disproportionate response to the situation.)

The 40106 solution has excellent filtering and hysteresis, and doesn't rely upon current-mode devices which offend my sensibilities.
And what exactly did you try?

I've never had a single issue with any local installs, and from what customers are telling me, no problems on customers' cars either.

I do not consider the optoisolator input a flawed design or implementation, since it works 100% correct in every single car.
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:04 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
I made shorter:
No sync loss events are shown in this log.
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:07 PM   #29
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And what exactly did you try?

I've never had a single issue with any local installs, and from what customers are telling me, no problems on customers' cars either.

I do not consider the optoisolator input a flawed design or implementation, since it works 100% correct in every single car.
I have probably used 5 or 6 different tach input conditioning circuits that *all* work perfectly for this application, from the optoisolator as found on V3.0/3.57 PCBs to the MAX9926 as found on MS3-Pro.

We have over 1000 Miata MSPNPs in the hands of consumers, and no reports of sync problems that were MSPNP hardware problems. I do not know how many several thousand more Miatas are running other MegaSquirt based products, but it is in the thousands.

I have seen other issues. These cars are hitting 20 years old, and some of the CAS's are starting to fail, as are wiring harnesses and connectors. Can't fault the ECU for mechanical problems.
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:10 PM   #30
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No sync loss events are shown in this log.
i cant open it in TS lite on my machine, but records 37-46 on this log show no sync.

the wheel patterns dont make sense to me looking in excel.
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:19 PM   #31
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i cant open it in TS lite on my machine, but records 37-46 on this log show no sync.

the wheel patterns dont make sense to me looking in excel.
No problems report when opened in TS (registered).

<edit>
I take that back. When I zoom out on the 1st page of this file, there are 2 dropouts of the CMP signal.
The CMP signal is not tricky to read. I would suspect a bad CAS or wiring fault before the hardware conditioner.
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Old 02-28-2013, 01:04 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
No problems report when opened in TS (registered).

<edit>
I take that back. When I zoom out on the 1st page of this file, there are 2 dropouts of the CMP signal.
The CMP signal is not tricky to read. I would suspect a bad CAS or wiring fault before the hardware conditioner.
I tried another CAS from a working car and got the same result. My next step is to rewire the CAS.
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Old 02-28-2013, 01:40 PM   #33
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the CAS is such a simple device. rewiring is pointless.
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Old 02-28-2013, 01:52 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
the CAS is such a simple device. rewiring is pointless.
So my best bet then is to make a 2nd optoisolator, or use Joe's circuit? I've run fresh grounds right to the head and cleaned all grounds under the hood in the past and it did not make a difference.
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Old 02-28-2013, 02:16 PM   #35
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I wont to look at the composite logs at home and see where the sync loss is occuring, if the crank signal is dropping out, the 2nd opto would be pointless.
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:45 PM   #36
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Build the second opto for the cam signal.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:03 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
the is such a simple device. rewiring is pointless.
Unless the 20 year old wiring is broken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
I wont to look at the composite logs at home and see where the sync loss is occuring, if the crank signal is dropping out, the 2nd opto would be pointless.
I saw in the composite log that CMP is missing, and posted it below. Note that there was an edit in my earlier post, as the dropping CMP signal was hidden at first.
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Old 03-01-2013, 04:19 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
I have probably used 5 or 6 different tach input conditioning circuits that *all* work perfectly for this application, from the optoisolator as found on V3.0/3.57 PCBs to the MAX9926 as found on MS3-Pro.

We have over 1000 Miata MSPNPs in the hands of consumers, and no reports of sync problems that were MSPNP hardware problems. I do not know how many several thousand more Miatas are running other MegaSquirt based products, but it is in the thousands.

I have seen other issues. These cars are hitting 20 years old, and some of the CAS's are starting to fail, as are wiring harnesses and connectors. Can't fault the ECU for mechanical problems.
So Ben, what circuits would you advise for a regular MS2 on a 99?
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Old 03-04-2013, 02:53 PM   #39
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Wanted to give this up a bump for the answer to Frank's question.
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Old 03-04-2013, 04:34 PM   #40
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Several different ways work. Here is one suggestion:
MS2-Extra Miata 4g63 Manual
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