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Old 01-18-2008, 05:50 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryceness View Post
Maybe because, for some reason, they're all burnt out.
It doesn't make sense. All settings are the way it was running good with stock coils, except the dwell.

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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
can you revert to your stock coils to determine if the coils are burnt out for real or for some reason a setting is preventing spark?

FWIW, i didnt make any of the diagrams, i just copied and pasted into a thread without 15 pages of chit-chat.
Nope. The reason I went to COPs was because I loaded an old MSQ file I saved when I was doing the VB921s with inverted spark set so I blew up the factory units. That msq was deleted the day it happened, and I check for inverted spark everytime I start the car to make 100% sure its not set.

You're running these god damn things, do you have them wired up the same as your diagram and my wiring???
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Old 01-18-2008, 05:56 PM   #22
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yep. and wired newbsauce's that way too. no issues.
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Old 01-18-2008, 06:09 PM   #23
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Yeah, doesn't make sense. I checked the voltages at the wiring and everything in my wiring and it all checks out like its supposed to.

Is it seriously possible the coils were just bad to begin with? I'm really finding that hard to believe because it did run.. really badly, but it actually ran for five minutes or so!
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Old 01-18-2008, 07:06 PM   #24
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what PN are your cops?
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Old 01-18-2008, 07:14 PM   #25
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All four are 90080-19015 and have hand written by salvage yard I assume "2001 Toyota Corolla" written on them. Got them off ebay.

Looked up like 3 sets on carparts.com that I'm gonna order when I hear back from them, but I'm seriously concerned that something I did damaged them. Just can't figure out what though.
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Old 01-18-2008, 07:21 PM   #26
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Try throwing them on a corolla and see if they work.
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Old 01-18-2008, 07:43 PM   #27
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If I had a corolla, I would. :(

So I just found ANOTHER wiring diagram from toyota:

http://www.jugrnot.com/Wiring%20Manual-All_Page_10.jpg

What the ****!?!?!?!??!?!!??!?! Why are these showing we're all wired up wrong???????
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Old 01-18-2008, 07:46 PM   #28
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i wired brad's with the stock harness and plugs. ill have him check the wiring colors to it's relative location based on our numbering.

but if it was running, i dont see how it was wrong..




edit:





#1 is W/B #4 is B/W


so their wiring is reverse number from ours. so it's kosher.
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Old 01-18-2008, 08:29 PM   #29
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Not really any help, but I spent almost a full day looking at wiring diagrams - this is what I learned:
Toyotas are all different from each other. The color wires mean nothing, in one car, white/black is positive, in another it's ground.

The pins on the coils do seem to be consistent, though. If you swap power and ground, it should get hot in a hurry. If it doesn't. there's definitely something wrong. :-) Check across the pins at the coil? I think you already did this. Check for a spark signal, too.
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Old 01-18-2008, 08:33 PM   #30
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So my wiring is up to par, MS is setup correctly.. They had to be bad from the start?
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Old 01-18-2008, 08:36 PM   #31
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It's pretty weird that all four would be bad at once.

Oh, do this (I did):

Hook known good power and ground to the power and ground pins.

Then, tap 5V (or is it ground? I'm pretty sure it's 5V) to the fire pin. If it shocks you, you drop the coil and wet yourself, then you know you're good. While I didn't do the wetting myself bit, I was able to hand fire them. I switched the MS to "interverted" so I had a steady supply of +5V, and I used left over pins from the boomslang operation to do the connections.
-Abe.
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Old 01-18-2008, 09:45 PM   #32
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I have a pretty high dollar lab precision power supply that'll do 0 - 30 volts but only puts out 2.5 amps. I hooked up one of the coils with my timing light pickup around the wiring harness. Try to give it five volts into the trigger and nothing happens. Gave it the same 12 volt source as the power source for the coil and the coil clicks. gave it a bit more voltage and the timing light fired off once but I didn't get shocked. The coil continues to click like a relay when I give it voltage to the trigger?
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Old 01-18-2008, 10:43 PM   #33
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Good news, Bad news.

Picture is worth 1000 words:



I keep forgetting that I have dozens of old computer power supplies around here that have common grounding, +5 volt 30 amp outputs, +12volt 15 amp, -12 volt 30 amp, etc. The bench power supply I have has isolated grounds and I forgot.

Megasquirt *appears* to check out but it could still be the problem. Its somewhere between megasquirt and the factory coil harness plug on the car, so I've got the coils narrowed down.

Heres a good question. I have a relay board and cable, so I could hook this up on the bench. What are the chances I could use a spare CAS I have laying around, the relay board, and some wires to fool megasquirt into thinking the engine is running to trigger a spark event?
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Old 01-21-2008, 10:22 PM   #34
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Okay. HELP!!!

All four coils will fire on the bench with me triggering them manually. BOTH Spark outputs have been verified functional with Stimulator running via. Oscilloscope having an offset 5 volt on/off.

Wired up A coil to the trigger output I made a jumper for from the stimulator to test with scope. Hooked just ONE coil up, test fired manually, powered up MS with the trigger hooked to ONE spark output. Nothing! It WILL NOT fire the coil! Any of them I tested, but when I do it manually giving it 5 volts.. Fires!

The cars wiring is good, the coils are good, Megasquirt seems good.. What is going on???
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Old 01-22-2008, 01:25 AM   #35
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Bueller???
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Old 01-22-2008, 05:20 AM   #36
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two things:
1) How are you test firing? You want to apply 5V for, oh, a few milliseconds, so, as fast as you can, while giving it +12 volts. If you're sure you're doing it under the same circumstances it should work if the MS does it or if you do. Again, I hooked up the same 12 volts from the car, set the output of the MS to "going low", but really, just take any 5V from the MS and put it on that line, and tap it on and off to the trigger pin on the coil.

2) I dunno about the holy MS-I, but in MS-II/extra you can test outputs and get the coils to fire away as much as you want, at any speed, etc, you can imagine.

Anyway, I'd stop with the pc power supply (though it's good to know the coils are good) and just do it.

You're not going to see anything with a timing light, don't bother. It can be done (I have) but the timing is wrong, for one thing, and two, it's hard. If you really want to, take the negetive power to the coil, jumper in a LONG bit of wire, several feet, and wrap that around the pick up a bunch of times, as many as you can and still get the clamp shut. That should fire it, but you don't need to since you can just dangle a spark plug out. If you want to set timing, let the coil hang out, jam a aligator clip in it, through the timing light pick up, and then on to a spark plug, which you ground. That will work fine, I set my timing that way and my car runs AT LEAST one day in three. :-)

Anyway, your two next steps are making sure the MS can put out the right thing and making sure the coils work from your harness on your car with your power and the MS's 5V does the trick.
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Old 01-23-2008, 10:53 PM   #37
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I guess I just have to assume maybe the ignitors inside the coils are maybe bad? I know for damn sure I can't press that little button in time measured by milliseconds. Guess I'll source another set of coils and just keep my fingers crossed they end up working, at this point I really don't know what to do.

The bench test with an oscilloscope shows the output trigger is 5 volts. The coils need five volts to fire, everything should be on the up and up.... But its not.
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Old 01-24-2008, 12:02 AM   #38
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Have you checked continuity between the coil firing pin and the ms pin?
You would just need an ohm meter, some wire (to extend to the coil from the ms) .

The coils are pretty robust, i doubt they would just die.
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Old 01-24-2008, 12:08 AM   #39
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don't toss your coils. You said they worked on the PC power supply, so you know the coils are good. The trouble is in your wiring on the car or MS settings, I'm sure of it - somehow.

Get bare wires, ideally, pull the ones out of the toyota plug. Hook each one into the coil. Verify on the back of the pins (they will stick out a bit) that you have ground, 0V, and +12. Pull the trigger wire off. Then go in the car, switch the MS to "inverted". go back out. You should have ground, +5V, +12V.

Don't sit around too long with the trigger line hooked up.

Now take the 5V wire, and just tap it on the pin on and off, as fast as you can, even just one time. It should throw a spark - if the voltages are all correct.

If you don't have 5V, let me know. If you do and it doens't spark, and you checked +12 and ground are right, in the same spot as with the computer case, let me know.

My guess is if you do it like that, it'll work. If not, it might be a software thing.

Assuming it does work, there's lots of playing to be done in the output test mode.

I'm sure we can get this working.

Quote:
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Have you checked continuity between the coil firing pin and the ms pin?
You would just need an ohm meter, some wire (to extend to the coil from the ms) .

The coils are pretty robust, i doubt they would just die.
My way checks both that, and everything else, too. Same idea, but you don't need long wires. :-)
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Old 01-24-2008, 12:22 AM   #40
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I was thinking more along the lines if he had the right wire from the stock harness wired in via the patch harness into the ms. Isn't he parallel?
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