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Old 10-04-2015, 09:32 PM   #1
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Default Begi Alpha Omega Kit - Feedback?

I am considering my upgrade options on my 05 Mazdaspeed Miata.

Options are: FM Little or Big Enchelada, FMII or BEGI Alpha-Omega (when it's available) Anybody have current experience with the BEGI AO on their car?

I am not building a track car, but I want to get what I can out of the stock drivetrain (except clutch) in one shot, if I go with the FMII or the BEGI AO at least. I am looking for the plus and minus of the options. I understand anything but the LE willl make me non ODB2 compiant.

Feedback?
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Old 10-04-2015, 11:31 PM   #2
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Have you already installed an MSPNP Pro? If not that and a wideband need to be the first things. You can really make the MSM setup a good bit better with a proper ecu.
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:58 AM   #3
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I understand the ECU is the weak link in the current setup. It seems there are at least 4 options for ECU. MSPNP, Hydra, BEGI reflash of stock ECU, or one of the piggyback units. I want to buy what best matches my mechanical mods. If I go with the FMII, then the Hydra, If I go with a BEGI upgrade, then whatever they recommend.


Loosing ODB2 is a minus in my opinion, for the smog check hassle and the effect on resale value. Just want to have a plan for the entire upgrade before starting to buy pieces.
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Old 10-05-2015, 11:00 AM   #4
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There's really only one option: FM MSM "upgrade" with an MS of your choice.
The rest are.......mistakes

On the other hand, you can do the basic bolt ons and MS and get to 3/4 of your goal and be able to swap back to stock for smog in a few hours. And spend less money.
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Old 10-05-2015, 11:22 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodyMSM View Post
I understand the ECU is the weak link in the current setup. It seems there are at least 4 options for ECU. MSPNP, Hydra, BEGI reflash of stock ECU, or one of the piggyback units. I want to buy what best matches my mechanical mods. If I go with the FMII, then the Hydra, If I go with a BEGI upgrade, then whatever they recommend.


Loosing ODB2 is a minus in my opinion, for the smog check hassle and the effect on resale value. Just want to have a plan for the entire upgrade before starting to buy pieces.
A standalone is what matches the mechanical mods the best. It doesn't matter if you use a MSPNP with an FMII, and in fact I would recommend it, because MS has much better support than Hydra. Don't even think about an ECU reflash or piggyback if you want what's best for your powertrain.

A tune will have to be adjusted for your setup anyway, so it's not like the Hydra goes with the FMII, it just happens that Flyin' Miata sells the Hydra and sells the FMII, so they sell them together. In reality they are two completely different systems.
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Old 10-05-2015, 11:31 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodyMSM View Post
I understand the ECU is the weak link in the current setup. It seems there are at least 4 options for ECU. MSPNP, Hydra, BEGI reflash of stock ECU, or one of the piggyback units. I want to buy what best matches my mechanical mods. If I go with the FMII, then the Hydra, If I go with a BEGI upgrade, then whatever they recommend.

Loosing ODB2 is a minus in my opinion, for the smog check hassle and the effect on resale value. Just want to have a plan for the entire upgrade before starting to buy pieces.
If you do any vendor piggy back, Do the xede + stock ecu. I don't recommend the ecu reflash due to limits and how the added fuel is implemented using the MAF. If you ever need to go back to stock oem ecu after the reflash, you'll lose that feature unless you pay for another flash (back to stock but not really sorta). Xede + stock ecu still allows OBD2 & emissions if you can stomach the xede's price, get it without RC injectors and choose a higher quality ev14. Nigelt has a thread on 5.0 mustang injectors that will work. Five-O injectors work as well on xede.

If you go the MSPNP route, tons of support via these forums and as mentioned... You would need to keep all of your stock parts that make it 'oem' when the stock ecu is plugged in. (injectors, stock ecu, MAF). You change out the parts, reset codes, drive around with no boost (wire open wastegate) till all monitors set and go pass inspection. Reverse install mods, do burn outs with new said inspection sticker.

I don't know enough about the Hydra to make any comments, except that it's very expensive

Last edited by Girz0r; 10-05-2015 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 10-05-2015, 11:42 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodyMSM View Post
I understand the ECU is the weak link in the current setup. It seems there are at least 4 options for ECU. MSPNP, Hydra, BEGI reflash of stock ECU, or one of the piggyback units. I want to buy what best matches my mechanical mods. If I go with the FMII, then the Hydra, If I go with a BEGI upgrade, then whatever they recommend.


Loosing ODB2 is a minus in my opinion, for the smog check hassle and the effect on resale value. Just want to have a plan for the entire upgrade before starting to buy pieces.
Forget about the piggy backs units. I would be very concerned with how they manage fuel and spark on an MSM ecu. I don't think I have ever seen anyone use piggybacks with a MSM ecu even.

Honestly not much in known about the Begi re-flash. You send them your ecu, then they send it to someone else. Then you get it back and hope it is good. I don't understand how it can be properly tuned for each individual car, and I also don't know if it fixes some of the things that the stock ecu does bad.

So basically keeping OBDII compatibility and having a well tuned msm is not going to work. Switching back to stock on an MSM should not be to bad.

That leaves you with the Hydra and the MSPNP Pro. Personal preference, and preference of the forum will be towards the MSPNP Pro. It comes in a good bit cheaper, can use many different widebands, and many people prefer the features set and usability of tuning software over the hyda. The hydra has phone support from FM, which could be seen as a plus.

I would follow 18PSI advice and do MS and then FM Big Enchalda kit.
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Old 10-05-2015, 11:49 AM   #8
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I am an "analog" guy, moving up into the 21st century with my MSM. Previously I was tuning dual SU's on a 1970 Datsun 2000 Roadster. I am very computer literate, but I want a setup with vendor support. Where do I get a base map for a FMII and a Megasquirt? Who supports it? I'm in St. Louis, MO so I don't know a local tuner to take it to. I am fine doing the bolt on work. It's the ECU tuning that is the "black Box" to me!
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Old 10-05-2015, 12:56 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodyMSM View Post
I am considering my upgrade options on my 05 Mazdaspeed Miata.

Options are: FM Little or Big Enchelada, FMII or BEGI Alpha-Omega (when it's available) Anybody have current experience with the BEGI AO on their car?

I am not building a track car, but I want to get what I can out of the stock drivetrain (except clutch) in one shot, if I go with the FMII or the BEGI AO at least. I am looking for the plus and minus of the options. I understand anything but the LE willl make me non ODB2 compiant.

Feedback?
Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodyMSM View Post
I am an "analog" guy, moving up into the 21st century with my MSM. Previously I was tuning dual SU's on a 1970 Datsun 2000 Roadster. I am very computer literate, but I want a setup with vendor support. Where do I get a base map for a FMII and a Megasquirt? Who supports it? I'm in St. Louis, MO so I don't know a local tuner to take it to. I am fine doing the bolt on work. It's the ECU tuning that is the "black Box" to me!
A better question that should of been asked is how much power are you looking for?

If you want to skip on the ECU tuning headache & have vendor support WITHOUT making big changes to your drivetrain, I'd just do a big enchelada kit (though since it's not listed on the page, a question for FM is if the Hydra setup is still OBD2 friendly)
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Old 10-05-2015, 01:17 PM   #10
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The good thing about computers these days is that they do all the work for you!
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Old 10-05-2015, 01:19 PM   #11
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I don't believe that ANY aftermarket ECU (except piggyback) is ODB2 smog check compatible. FM would support the Hydra and that is in their Big Enchilada and the FMII turbo upgrade. HOW MUCH POWER? How much can I put thru the MSM trans and diff? I don't want to break things, at least not often. FM says 220-230 at the rear wheels is the limit of the BE. FMII will do that with the potential to go much higher later. MSM turbo is known to have problems. FMII replaces it. More money but more potential.


Anybody running the Alpha-Omega from BEGI?
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Old 10-05-2015, 01:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodyMSM View Post
I don't believe that ANY aftermarket ECU (except piggyback) is ODB2 smog check compatible.

Correct, Find out from FM how OBD2 friendly is the hydra setup (easy to swap ecu, will injectors need to be swapped too etc)

FM would support the Hydra and that is in their Big Enchilada and the FMII turbo upgrade.

For more efficient power at same psi, the FMII wins without a doubt.

HOW MUCH POWER? How much can I put thru the MSM trans and diff? I don't want to break things, at least not often.

Trans/Diff can take a lot of abuse, a FMII Kit will require a FM1 clutch at least. IMO

FM says 220-230 at the rear wheels is the limit of the BE. Cause: stock tiny IHI turbo

FMII will do that with the potential to go much higher later. More efficient turbo & hotside setup.

MSM turbo is known to have problems. FMII replaces it. More money but more potential. Yes


Anybody running the Alpha-Omega from BEGI?
Only a handful are running the AO manifolds & chinese turbos, no mazdaspeed examples yet.
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Old 10-05-2015, 01:54 PM   #13
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The 220-230 whp is getting close to the limit of the rods. 250 is the claimed limit, and 220-230 is probably noted for long term reliability.

Basically the rods go at 250, and when you get to 280 or so is when you need to start doing more internal work. Oil pump, etc. The trans is good to 300ish (that one isn't 100% understood) and the diff is good to the limits of the FMII, assuming you don't abuse it (drag race often, clutch dumps, wheel hop).
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Old 10-05-2015, 04:11 PM   #14
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If you need vendor support buy a diypnp unit from DIYautotune. Those guy's provide great support for their products, and you have the community here and a wealth of information to fall back on if need be.

Honestly I would do some injectors and a MSPNP on the car first and get it tuned or learn yourself how to tune. The cars drivability will be greatly increased. It's a night and day difference even on a crappy base tune.

Based on how you feel after doing that, then decide whether or not you want the bigger turbo setup. Then when it comes to upgrade, all the hard work is already done and you can just bolt on a kit of your choice and tweak some things on the tune, then go about your merry way.

Seriously these cars on the stock turbo with a proper ecu and tune with bolt-ons can make 200-230whp and a heck of a lot of fun to drive.
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Old 10-05-2015, 07:20 PM   #15
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Megasquirt has autotune for fueling. You just drive around and it adjusts the tune as necessary. When you get finished you click "Stop" and "Burn to ECU".
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Old 10-06-2015, 04:06 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
Forget about the piggy backs units. I would be very concerned with how they manage fuel and spark on an MSM ecu. I don't think I have ever seen anyone use piggybacks with a MSM ecu even.

Honestly not much in known about the Begi re-flash. You send them your ecu, then they send it to someone else. Then you get it back and hope it is good. I don't understand how it can be properly tuned for each individual car, and I also don't know if it fixes some of the things that the stock ecu does bad.
I don't know either (never used it, and don't have a MSM). But in other applications that keep the MAF sensor, the ECU uses the MAF to measure airflow directly. So you throw a better flowing head, header, and intake manifold on the car, and don't have to touch the tune because the MAF sees that additional airflow and automatically adds the extra fuel for it. Kinda of the reason MAF exist, it's awesome at adapting to what is actually happening.
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Old 10-06-2015, 04:51 PM   #17
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Sounds like I sill have some studying to do. MSPNP looks interesting. I guess learning to tune or finding a local tuner are both on the table now. Injectors and MSPSP as a first upgrade is an interesting choice. In theory then, as I add intake or exhaust mods, the ECU with an MAF should adjust itself? I need an ECU primer to read up on. Any suggestions?
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Old 10-06-2015, 07:04 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodyMSM View Post
Sounds like I sill have some studying to do. MSPNP looks interesting. I guess learning to tune or finding a local tuner are both on the table now. Injectors and MSPSP as a first upgrade is an interesting choice. In theory then, as I add intake or exhaust mods, the ECU with an MAF should adjust itself? I need an ECU primer to read up on. Any suggestions?
Buy this book and read it a few times. It is a good primer on ecu tuning in general.
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Old 10-06-2015, 09:22 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
I don't know either (never used it, and don't have a MSM). But in other applications that keep the MAF sensor, the ECU uses the MAF to measure airflow directly. So you throw a better flowing head, header, and intake manifold on the car, and don't have to touch the tune because the MAF sees that additional airflow and automatically adds the extra fuel for it. Kinda of the reason MAF exist, it's awesome at adapting to what is actually happening.
that's not how it works, because then you could put a bigger turbo on maf cars and they will just compensate, and I have yet to see that happen, on any car. all still need a "tune" even if it's a terrible archaic reflash of an otherwise un-reprogrammable ecu where they just plug random numbers in and call it good....hint hint
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Old 10-06-2015, 09:34 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
So you throw a better flowing head, header, and intake manifold on the car, and don't have to touch the tune because the MAF sees that additional airflow and automatically adds the extra fuel for it.
Too bad it doesn't actually work like that.
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