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Old 10-07-2015, 03:18 PM   #21
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Ordered the "book" on tuning along with Corky Bell's book. Starting to upgrade my brain to 21st century technology. Thanks for all the input here. I have much to learn and everyone's patients with a noob is appreciated. It's was 1975 when I took "Internal Combustion Engines" while pursuing a Mechanical Engineering degree. Digging deep to dredge up old knowledge.

Seriously considering the DIYAutotune MSPnp for the Mazdaspeed as my first upgrade now.

Going to make my list of mods for this winter and then winter 2016 and try to at least start with a plan.

Engine internals are for 2017 winter or beyond, unless my 220-230 HP upgrade just isn't enough! What should 0-60 and 1/4 mile be with that HP?

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Old 10-07-2015, 03:23 PM   #22
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if you want 21st century technology might want to put down corky's book and get something newer.

I ran 13.6 @ 105 in my 220hp (dynojet) and 211hp (mustang dyno) MSM
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Old 10-07-2015, 03:24 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodyMSM View Post
Ordered the "book" on tuning along with Corky Bell's book. Starting to upgrade my brain to 21st century technology. Thanks for all the input here. I have much to learn and everyone's patients with a noob is appreciated. It's was 1975 when I took "Internal Combustion Engines" while pursuing a Mechanical Engineering degree. Digging deep to dredge up old knowledge.

Seriously considering the DIYAutotune MSPnp for the Mazdaspeed as my first upgrade now.

Going to make my list of mods for this winter and then winter 2016 and try to at least start with a plan.

Engine internals are for 2017 winter or beyond, unless my 220-230 HP upgrade just isn't enough! What should 0-60 and 1/4 mile be with that HP?
Glad you ordered those 2 books. You will most likely learn a ton from them.

The MSPNP Pro for the MSM is probably the first thing I would recommend to anyone with an MSM. It alone opens up so many options and with a decent tune makes the car feel so much better then the stock ecu. There should be a few posts in the MS section and a few build threads that will show what the MS3 can do to make a MSM better.
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Old 10-07-2015, 03:27 PM   #24
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I ordered one before I even bought my MSM
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Old 10-08-2015, 10:12 AM   #25
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Fellows.
We have an MSM upg with the A/O at the moment. Another in a week or two. Will report.


"For more efficient power at same psi, the FMII wins without a doubt."

Please explain................

corky
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Old 10-08-2015, 10:21 AM   #26
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Fellows.
We have an MSM upg with the A/O at the moment. Another in a week or two. Will report.

"For more efficient power at same psi, the FMII wins without a doubt."

Please explain................

corky
Quote:
FM would support the Hydra and that is in their Big Enchilada and the FMII turbo upgrade.

For more efficient power at same psi, the FMII wins without a doubt.
Only speaking on IHI MSM Turbo vs a GT2560. As I understand the extra heat created from the smaller turbo is not optimal when a larger turbo can push the same psi at a much larger rate with less heat created when pressurized.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I tend to be.
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Old 10-08-2015, 10:28 AM   #27
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Neither is more efficient. They are the same.

If you want more efficient go look at the TSE or FAB kits both of which are more efficient and better than FM/Begi
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Old 10-08-2015, 10:33 AM   #28
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Neither is more efficient. They are the same.

If you want more efficient go look at the TSE or FAB kits both of which are more efficient and better than FM/Begi
Are we talking 'kits' or turbos as I referenced above?
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Old 10-08-2015, 10:37 AM   #29
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A kit includes a turbo, or it wouldn't be a kit. The fm/begi Garrett kits obviously outperform the msm ihi setup which was an afterthought from the 90's. The begi china/ebay turbo is a joke so I'm not even including that in this convo.

The FAB/TSE kits have better...........everything
than fm/begi
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Old 10-08-2015, 10:51 AM   #30
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Quote:
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The fm/begi Garrett kits obviously outperform the msm ihi setup which was an afterthought from the 90's
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Old 10-08-2015, 12:12 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky Bell View Post
Fellows.
We have an MSM upg with the A/O at the moment. Another in a week or two. Will report.


"For more efficient power at same psi, the FMII wins without a doubt."

Please explain................

corky


Corky,


Very interested in more info on your A/O kit for MSM. What ECU are you developing it with? Teaser line on your website says ODBII compatible. Are you reflashing the factory unit or ? Looking forward to your update.
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Old 10-08-2015, 08:53 PM   #32
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I don't know either (never used it, and don't have a MSM). But in other applications that keep the MAF sensor, the ECU uses the MAF to measure airflow directly. So you throw a better flowing head, header, and intake manifold on the car, and don't have to touch the tune because the MAF sees that additional airflow and automatically adds the extra fuel for it. Kinda of the reason MAF exist, it's awesome at adapting to what is actually happening.
If your MAF is mounted pre-turbo like on the MSM, I don't see how it's really good for anything at all besides measuring how much air goes into the turbo.

OP, custom kits will generally get you more performance for your dollar but take more planning on your end.

As far as which vendor to buy from, FM is better in every single regard, maybe except for price, but you pay more for excellent customer support and tech service. FlyinMiata has also never sent me parts that blow up my car and then threatened me with a non-existing lawyer. I prefer all of those things from someone who I'm about to send a few thousand dollars to.
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Old 10-08-2015, 08:59 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazdaspeeder View Post
If your MAF is mounted pre-turbo like on the MSM, I don't see how it's really good for anything at all besides measuring how much air goes into the turbo...
Well on the MSM, all the air that enters the turbo also enters the engine. So in that regard, it's really good for measuring how much air goes into the engine.
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Old 10-08-2015, 09:06 PM   #34
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Well on the MSM, all the air that enters the turbo also enters the engine. So in that regard, it's really good for measuring how much air goes into the engine.
That's true. I did notice a big difference moving my MAF to post-turbo pre-throttle body location though, so that's really not the ideal place for it, though I've seen plenty of pre-turbo MAFed cars before.

OP, for 220whp, a set of bolt-ons, and a good tune with a Megasquirt of Hydra will do the trick. I was at around that power level with my MSM before on an MS tune, and let me tell you, it's very different from a stock MSM, even a stock tuned MSM. I would work your way up there, and see what you want to do later. Can always sell your bolt-ons to someone else, or re-use some with your FM2, like the exhaust could probably work, one side of intake piping would work, etc.

Clutch on the MSM is apparently good for way more than the stock turbo puts out, rumored by some to be good to almost 300 torques, but I don't know for sure. If you want incentive to get an ECU sooner, go unplug your TPS sensor and go for a drive (disregard the poor deceleration which a tuned ECU won't have). The TPS is to the right and under the throttle body, I think there's 3 wires going to it. It plugs up to a sensor under the throttle body. Check out how the power delivery is, how smooth it is, how much more power you get sooner. Some guys back in the day install a TPS switch that let them have the power for racing and then the stock ECU manners for driving. I think long-term this will have adverse effects, so just get a good tune. Where are you located? I'm sure we can recomend some places to take it to that will do a great job!
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Old 10-08-2015, 09:38 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
Well on the MSM, all the air that enters the turbo also enters the engine. So in that regard, it's really good for measuring how much air goes into the engine.
Or.... based on how MSMs run, it's really bad for that.

I'm going with really bad. I believe it's even the same part as normal NB.
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Old 10-08-2015, 11:28 PM   #36
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I'm located in St. Louis MO. I would love to find a local tuner. Only issue I have with the FM kit is the Hydra, as tuners seem to be very few and far between. Remote is always a possibility. FM remote support is the default option I see so far.
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Old 10-09-2015, 12:51 AM   #37
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I'm located in St. Louis MO. I would love to find a local tuner. Only issue I have with the FM kit is the Hydra, as tuners seem to be very few and far between. Remote is always a possibility. FM remote support is the default option I see so far.
You can get an FM2 without the ECU and then use a Megasquirt with it if you want. It comes with the manifold, turbo, down pipe, IC, piping, BOV, misc stuff, basically everything but an ECU and fatback. My advice is to find a good tuner locally that is trusted and has been doing tuning for some time. Then talk to them about your car and what options are available for it and see what they say. I used an amazing tuner but he was unfamiliar with the Megasquirt since he tunes Hydra/Link etc. and he did a great job but it took him much longer than expected, especially the idle and start-up. I was fortunate to have a DD and the downtime didn't matter.

Go to some local meets and talk to people about tuners. Facebook groups might lead to some finds too. Also ask on mazda-speed.com, I think there are a few St. Louis guys.
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Old 10-09-2015, 01:52 PM   #38
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Don't have any experience with them, but Pur Performance in St Charles is supposedly pretty good. I am out in St Peters and can help you get a MS up and running, the auto tuning functionality in Tuner Studio is a wonderful thing and works very well. The base map included in MSLabs built MS2/MS3 are very good, make a great starting point, and are very safe.

My car has had a MS for around 4-5 years now and has never seen a dyno or professional tuner. Auto tune + detonation cans + mimicking others timing maps has worked pretty well.

If you drive less than 6k miles a year, you can qualify for a mileage based emissions exemption and don't have to worry about OBD2.
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Old 10-09-2015, 03:54 PM   #39
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Midpack,


Are you a member of the Gateway Miata Club? I joined a month ago. Got 5 MSM's in the club now. I have some time to make a decision. I am learning a lot every day it seems. I want to have Phase I done by spring, whatever Phase I turns out to be. My biggest decision is to keep the factory turbo or dump it. Everything else is kind of independent. I don't want to buy stuff that only works with factory turbo and then turn around and replace half of it. I'll figure it out soon enough. My tuning book just came in today, and I have a new head unit to install for my audio upgrade this weekend.
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Old 10-09-2015, 07:06 PM   #40
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Woody, have you looked at our EFR kits?
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