Adventures in PTE/TTE
#521
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Flower Mound, TX
Posts: 238
Total Cats: 26
Why, both the '99 points and dyno reclass cars are TTE/PTE (no star)?
And I forgot to measure actual w/p above, instead of adjusted. It really is just a little better for the points car than I originally calculated.
2015
Points  2400 lbs @ 145 hp = 16.557 actual, w/ weight and tire (205) adjustment 16.507
Dyno Reclass  2390 lbs @ 130 hp = 18.38
2016 
Points  2410 lbs @ 146 hp = 16.506, no adjustment weight = tire (205)
Dyno Reclass  2415 lbs @ 129 hp = 18.72
Change from 2015 to 2016 
Points 16.557  16.506 = .051
Dyno Reclass 18.38  18.72 = .34
Total change .051 + .34 = .391 ~ 2.3%
So now the points car has 2.214 w/p advantage ~ 13.4%; instead of 1.82 w/p ~ 11.0%
But this is all just a math exercise, the real question is:
How much money will it take to reach 146hp using only 9 points?
And I forgot to measure actual w/p above, instead of adjusted. It really is just a little better for the points car than I originally calculated.
2015
Points  2400 lbs @ 145 hp = 16.557 actual, w/ weight and tire (205) adjustment 16.507
Dyno Reclass  2390 lbs @ 130 hp = 18.38
2016 
Points  2410 lbs @ 146 hp = 16.506, no adjustment weight = tire (205)
Dyno Reclass  2415 lbs @ 129 hp = 18.72
Change from 2015 to 2016 
Points 16.557  16.506 = .051
Dyno Reclass 18.38  18.72 = .34
Total change .051 + .34 = .391 ~ 2.3%
So now the points car has 2.214 w/p advantage ~ 13.4%; instead of 1.82 w/p ~ 11.0%
But this is all just a math exercise, the real question is:
How much money will it take to reach 146hp using only 9 points?
Last edited by EricJ; 12042015 at 06:48 PM.
#523
Average hp rule.. Where have I seen that before?
(couldn't resist)
+1 intake $70
+3 ECU $1300
+3 exhaust $400
E85 needed. $40007500 for blueprinted longblock, depending on how much high rev protection you want. Or zero if you have a healthy OEM engine and plan to keep revs below 7400. Might have trouble reaching power cap with stock crate motor though.
Only now the intake manifold is free since you're doing it with an NB1 instead of swapping in an NB2.
/threadjack
(couldn't resist)
+3 ECU $1300
+3 exhaust $400
E85 needed. $40007500 for blueprinted longblock, depending on how much high rev protection you want. Or zero if you have a healthy OEM engine and plan to keep revs below 7400. Might have trouble reaching power cap with stock crate motor though.
Only now the intake manifold is free since you're doing it with an NB1 instead of swapping in an NB2.
/threadjack
__________________
Last edited by emilio700; 12042015 at 07:45 PM.
#524
Why, both the '99 points and dyno reclass cars are TTE/PTE (no star)?
And I forgot to measure actual w/p above, instead of adjusted. It really is just a little better for the points car than I originally calculated.
2015
Points  2400 lbs @ 145 hp = 16.557 actual, w/ weight and tire (205) adjustment 16.507
Dyno Reclass  2390 lbs @ 130 hp = 18.38
2016 
Points  2410 lbs @ 146 hp = 16.506, no adjustment weight = tire (205)
Dyno Reclass  2415 lbs @ 129 hp = 18.72
Change from 2015 to 2016 
Points 16.557  16.506 = .051
Dyno Reclass 18.38  18.72 = .34
Total change .051 + .34 = .391 ~ 2.3%
So now the points car has 2.214 w/p advantage ~ 13.4%; instead of 1.82 w/p ~ 11.0%
But this is all just a math exercise, the real question is:
How much money will it take to reach 146hp using only 9 points?
And I forgot to measure actual w/p above, instead of adjusted. It really is just a little better for the points car than I originally calculated.
2015
Points  2400 lbs @ 145 hp = 16.557 actual, w/ weight and tire (205) adjustment 16.507
Dyno Reclass  2390 lbs @ 130 hp = 18.38
2016 
Points  2410 lbs @ 146 hp = 16.506, no adjustment weight = tire (205)
Dyno Reclass  2415 lbs @ 129 hp = 18.72
Change from 2015 to 2016 
Points 16.557  16.506 = .051
Dyno Reclass 18.38  18.72 = .34
Total change .051 + .34 = .391 ~ 2.3%
So now the points car has 2.214 w/p advantage ~ 13.4%; instead of 1.82 w/p ~ 11.0%
But this is all just a math exercise, the real question is:
How much money will it take to reach 146hp using only 9 points?
PTE* used to be 17.3lbs/HP with a 1994 chassis and now for 2016 it is 17.6lbs/HP. So 17.6 on dyno reclass versus 16.5 on points build.
#525
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Flower Mound, TX
Posts: 238
Total Cats: 26
I was only looking at Points car vs. Preapproved Dyno Reclass in Appendix C, for the car I currently own; and how the 2016 rules changed from the 2015 rules.
It would be a big task to analyse all Miata models for points vs dyno reclass, both Preapproved in Appendix C and the individual reclasses, for both 2016 and 2015.
#526
Oops, did I fail to preference the analysis with "For a '99"?
I was only looking at Points car vs. Preapproved Dyno Reclass in Appendix C, for the car I currently own; and how the 2016 rules changed from the 2015 rules.
It would be a big task to analyse all Miata models for points vs dyno reclass, both Preapproved in Appendix C and the individual reclasses, for both 2016 and 2015.
I was only looking at Points car vs. Preapproved Dyno Reclass in Appendix C, for the car I currently own; and how the 2016 rules changed from the 2015 rules.
It would be a big task to analyse all Miata models for points vs dyno reclass, both Preapproved in Appendix C and the individual reclasses, for both 2016 and 2015.
Comparing a PTE base class points car to a PTE base class dyno reclassed car is not an even comparison.
#527
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 260
Total Cats: 58
You're missing the point I'm making. Ignore the model year if you want, even though a '94 and '99 dyno reclass are almost the same. When you build a 99 points car you are going to chew up at least 7 points on the engine mods section for power. Since dyno reclass has no engine mod points taken, you get to spend that 7 points on a PTE* base class instead.
Comparing a PTE base class points car to a PTE base class dyno reclassed car is not an even comparison.
Comparing a PTE base class points car to a PTE base class dyno reclassed car is not an even comparison.
tl;dr PTE* gets you more power per weight than PTE, and that's the comparison that should be made.
No one dyno reclasses to a noasterisk base class. Or at least they shouldn't. The power advantage is worth more in lap times than basically any other mod except maybe being on edge of running a significantly stickier tire.
#530
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 175
Total Cats: 0
My reclass last year was 117whp at 2460. This year? 117whp at 2570lb. Thats going from a 21.02 p/w ratio to a 21.96 p/w ratio. Meanwhile, my competition at 26302675 has anywhere from 128135whp.
It doesnt matter how good my setup is, or how stellar I drive the car, or how well I manage traffic, I was barely able to compete previously, and now, after taking an almost 2 whole number hit in power to weight ratio?
Guess I will build that STL motor after all.
#533
And yeah, take two dice and give them a roll, that's about the best way try and guess how much variance you will have on the MCE mobile dyno.
#535
No. It says in the rule book that any cars that have a change in their base class or base weight listing need a new reclass. Every single Miata in the list had a change made, so every single Miata dyno reclass with a date before the 2016 rules release is now invalid and you need to request a new one.
#536
Yep, you're right. I forgot about this line. Thanks.
Any vehicle that has b
een re

classed by the National T
T Director and has had a change to
either
its base class or its base
weight in the table in Section 8
.2.2 since the re

classification
was approved, MUST be re

submitted for re

classification.
een re

classed by the National T
T Director and has had a change to
either
its base class or its base
weight in the table in Section 8
.2.2 since the re

classification
was approved, MUST be re

submitted for re

classification.