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Old 11-29-2011, 11:31 AM   #21
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Wait... so what exactly failed in his braking system?
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Old 11-29-2011, 11:37 AM   #22
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I looked at Googlemaps and saw what looked like a decently open area. Based on what Hustler and the other guys are saying, I'm assuming that's an old picture.
You can't see the topography. This track is so fast that you need to ride around on a bicycle and decide where and how to go off.
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Old 11-29-2011, 11:42 AM   #23
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Also, I've had total brake failure 3 times, as in zero pedal pressure, and twice this happened at triple digit speeds. It will change the way you drive on the track and you will never trust the pedal again, and you will always check-up for pressure on the big brake zones. It's a truly horifying experience.
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Old 11-29-2011, 11:44 AM   #24
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damn... what was the cause each time? this is always my greatest fear, especially with EVERYTHING in my braking system being aftermarket.
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Old 11-29-2011, 11:47 AM   #25
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damn... what was the cause each time? this is always my greatest fear, especially with EVERYTHING in my braking system being aftermarket.
Pad broke off the backing plate once, a piston mushroomed and would not retract into the bore (700*f+ on one caliper), and a broken brake line. I had no problem throwing down money for the TSE "Biggest" Brake kit. It helps me relax when I'm sitting on the grid.
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Old 11-29-2011, 11:50 AM   #26
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You can't see the topography. This track is so fast that you need to ride around on a bicycle and decide where and how to go off.
So, for whatever reason, going off straight is bad news there, and doing whatever to NOT go off straight is a better option. Got it.
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Old 11-29-2011, 12:00 PM   #27
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I've never run the track that way, but I have been straight off going into T7 with a broken control arm...it was a hell of a ride but I didn't hit anything. I don't remember there being a wall or behind 6, but then again I've never run clockwise.

Still can't believe the driver didn't go for the handbrake immediately...it's saved me a few times. And instructors...No thanks.
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Old 11-29-2011, 12:13 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by stinkycheezmonky View Post
THAT sounds like a shitty instructor. Student says, "my brakes feel funny" or "my car isn't stopping" you dial it back ASAP.

MEATBALL RACING!!!!!!!!!!! it's a way of life.
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Old 11-29-2011, 02:15 PM   #29
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I will say this, I have grabbed a students wheel twice. Once was at a PCA event and the student went wide and we got sideways while a new M3 was coming up the inside, we were looking at his car out the front window and I grabbed the wheel to counter steer. The second time I was in a STI and the student understeered off the track at 80mph into a grass feild and I straightened the wheel and slowly brought us back on track. I want to live, If I think I can 99% save us, I will. Most Texas tracks have 0 runoff areas, they are normally grass than some woods. At 120mph the **** gets real, real fast.
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Old 11-29-2011, 02:38 PM   #30
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Let me ask y'all this: If I'm in my moms van and she is driving (terribly because women) and she gets in a bad situation and freezes, do I not have the right to take the wheel and avoid or minimize damage or injury? We saw 2:14 of CTS-V guys driving abilities, and for all we know he sucks at it, (not saying he does, "just saying for all we know") does his passenger (the instructor) not have the right to self preservation? Or when you get in a car in this situation do you give up a portion of that right? I do not believe the video shoes the situation in a way that we could come to a intelligent conclusion. That being said, if somebody else caused damage to my car I'd be pissed as ******* hell, and I'd probably be out of the car screaming at the instructor.
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Old 11-29-2011, 02:42 PM   #31
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Watched the vid. That rally driver should fire his navigator.
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Old 11-29-2011, 02:45 PM   #32
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If I'm in my moms van and she is driving (terribly because women)
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Old 11-29-2011, 02:48 PM   #33
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isn;t that assumed?
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Old 11-29-2011, 03:06 PM   #34
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Doesn't make it any less funny
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Old 11-29-2011, 03:10 PM   #35
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i think most tx. tracks HAVE runoff area. most east coast tracks have little to no runoff before armco, tire walls, woods. having said that, there are many spots on tx tracks that have reduced runoff area. also, a 4,000lb. car going over 100mph without brakes will cover ALOT of runoff area real fast.
i went off in turn 5 going ccw last month due to oil. the back end shot out, i caught it, but was out of track so i went straight off which by the time i hit the grass i was probably at 75mph or so. i went down a hill there and came to a stop between 5-6. it steep enough of a drop that i disappeared to people on track. about 30 yards in front of me were bushes and what looked like a concrete wall or possibly highway type concrete barriers. i remember thinking that would have been bad news. i think going cw at over 100mph straight off at t6 would be bad times.
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Old 11-29-2011, 03:31 PM   #36
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Sorry, I mispoke. We have runoff as in grass then woods. We don't have gravel traps or anything like that. So what is the braking performance of a CTS-V at 120mph in grass?
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Old 11-29-2011, 03:54 PM   #37
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Problem I see is that in the event of an off, you want to go straight to avoid the possibility of digging in sideways and flipping. Hustler says the topography makes it bad to go straight off but doesn't add any more detail. Seems to me though that if there's a ditch of something of the sort that is bad for the car head-on, it will be even worse for the car if the car is going sideways because it could cause it to flip. Seems also that if the result had indeed been a flip, a lot more blame would be pointed at the instructor, it's just a matter of luck that he made them go off sidways and did not flip. Without a little more info about the runoff (or lack of) on that corner, hard to say which is better though.

-Ryan
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Old 11-29-2011, 04:21 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePass View Post
Problem I see is that in the event of an off, you want to go straight to avoid the possibility of digging in sideways and flipping. Hustler says the topography makes it bad to go straight off but doesn't add any more detail. Seems to me though that if there's a ditch of something of the sort that is bad for the car head-on, it will be even worse for the car if the car is going sideways because it could cause it to flip. Seems also that if the result had indeed been a flip, a lot more blame would be pointed at the instructor, it's just a matter of luck that he made them go off sidways and did not flip. Without a little more info about the runoff (or lack of) on that corner, hard to say which is better though.

-Ryan
It's easy to say if you've been there, on a 10-speed, hopped-up on 4-Loko and seen it. The instructor did the right thing and lived to tell about it. You guys can't see how going off outside the loop means 4-8' of air when you leave the track, there is a ditch that runs through the course for drainage, there are woods on another side, and finaly walls inside the loop.

It's like telling people to "go off straight" in #8-9 at Willow Springs, you turn through the dirt if you want the car to live.
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Old 11-29-2011, 05:04 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead_318 View Post
does his passenger (the instructor) not have the right to self preservation? Or when you get in a car in this situation do you give up a portion of that right?
Merely agreeing to ride along with a noob in a 400+ hp car around a track indicates some lack of self preservation, but it's a quality that you more or less need in order to be an instructor.

On the flip side, if you're a noob with a 400+ hp car and the brakes fail because you have not adequately prepared your car for the track, you most definitely forfeit any right you may have had for the instructor to not violate the sanctity of your steering wheel if he thinks it will prevent him from becoming dead. You can Monday morning quarterback it all you want but at that moment when the SHTF, most noobs simply lack the talent to recover their 2-ton car and the instructor's judgment will be better the vast majority of the time.
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Old 11-29-2011, 05:27 PM   #40
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Quote:
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but at that moment when the SHTF, most noobs simply lack the talent to recover their 2-ton car and the instructor's judgment will be better the vast majority of the time.
You said this more eloquently than I did.
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