Arca_ex

iTrader: (2)

I don't think I'm that far out of the loop. Spec Hoosier is dumb any way you put it and will only serve to decrease participation. I'm not against spec tires when implemented in a decent fashion but they literally picked one of the most expensive tires, with the shortest lifespans, with a contingency program that only serves to reduce tire costs of the top one or two cars by 50% if they are lucky since it's now a BOGO contingency. In 245/40r15 the Toyo RR is exactly 300 dollars cheaper per set than Hoosier R7 and if you're getting 12 decent heat cycles instead of 8 decent heat cycles, tire costs on RR's are going to be about 50% of what you would need to be running Hoosiers. 1800 dollars per 24 decent heat cycles (two sets) on RR and 3600 dollars per 24 decent heat cycles (three sets) on R7.

I've seen the 80-125k builds and they're nuts but honestly they are outliers in the vast majority of regional participants. I consider my build over the top and hopefully competitive on a national level but it's still not even half the budget of some of these E46M3 dudes.

After reading the thread and seeing that they want to go to Hoosiers only for 2023 that honestly pisses me off, because it makes it that much harder to try to entice new drivers into race group. If they now have to buy Hoosiers just to try it after they spend a boat load of cash for things like a roll cage, HnR, fire system, it's going to stop people from trying. They might say that "oh serious racers know that the Hoosier game is reality" but the vast majority of "serious racers" started off as someone who dipped their toe in before they just jump into the deep end.

I don't like it.

And a ton of people at the regional level are going to be running Toyos. With the gaps in skill at regional events too the 1.6 modifier is going to be enough to give a better driver a fighting chance at beating Hoosier cars that may not be driven at quite the same level now as well and will start to change people's perception of how competitive you can be on non-hoosier offerings.

flier129

iTrader: (7)

It's not BOGO, you're allowed to claim contingency more than once from the same invoice.


I'd be surprised if they make ST4/TT4 into spec tire across the board and not just nationals. A front running build on a 1.6 modifier tire could certainly be REAL hard to pass in ST4. I think Hoosier will still be king in TT4(and TT5).

Arca_ex

iTrader: (2)

The language seems very clear to me... might want to read it again. Trust me I used to turn in one invoice for the year and then stack an entire spare bedroom full of free tires but that's not how it works ever since the start of 2021.

https://prizes.drivenasa.com/hoosier...gency-program/

• A copy of a paid invoice is required and must accompany all redemption forms submitted. The maximum number of contingency tires that can be claimed is equivalent to the quantity of tires listed on a paid invoice, e.g. buy a set of four (4) Hoosier Tires and claim a maximum of four (4) contingency tires for that invoice. The invoice must be dated within 90 days prior to the event. Contingency awarded tires or random draw tires (i.e. no charge tires) will not be eligible for contingency.

flier129

iTrader: (7)

I've received contingency more than once off the same invoice in 2021. The invoice just needs to be within ~90 days of the claim.

Roda

This. Exactly.

I'm this guy. I spent most of this year upgrading our car to be ST4 legal, even though I intend to run TT4 and not do W2W. The turbo is going on this summer, and I was planning to start hitting NASA events in fall 2022. I'm never going to be a serious front runner in points because I don't have the budget to run a full calendar of events. But I'll be out there filling in the field when I can, cause I'm just there to work on my car, work on my driving, and have fun. The competition is just an extra motivator for me to do well at an individual event. If they make TT4 a spec Hoosier class, I'm out, for all the reasons Aaron noted above. Toyo RR would make way more sense as a Spec tire... 'cause isn't the whole point of a Spec tire to level competition and keep costs down?

With a turbo BP, there's no way I'm running TT5/6, so if I'm out of TT4, I'm out of NASA. NASAs race program is my only reason for stepping over from the other HPDE events I've been running for the last 7 years. If I'm not running TT, no reason to pay for additional memberships and put up with all the startup hassle just to run HPDE at events that are more crowded than where I'm currently running.

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

Lurker in this thread as we're no longer in NASA ST/TT..

I wonder why NASA rules still favor Hoosier so strongly. Toyo can afford to not have any business from NASA I'm guessing. They can sell millions of all seasons to SUV owners just fine. OTOH Hoosiers business model for DOT radials is almost entirely dependent on NASA and SCCA road racing and to a lesser degree, VARA, BMWCCA, etc. SCCA street class went to 200tw a few years back so that market for A7's vanished. Hoosier is more vulnerable to a drop in demand for DOT radials if NASA rules were changed to favor Toyo. So I wonder what Hoosier pays NASA compared to what Toyo pays. Toyo is a title sponsor yet the rules still favor Hoosiers. Odd that.

/thread drift

thebeerbaron

iTrader: (1)

I think a better way to express what I'm thinking is that though Hoosiers may be the de-facto spec tire for ST4 front-runners, having a mod factor that can allow me, as a novice racer, to run a far more affordable tire in the class, makes the class available for me to enter. As a novice, I won't be a front-runner, but if the mod factor is at all accurate, it might allow me to be competitive with some part of the Hoosier-running pack.

Basically - I don't want to spend money like a national-caliber driver in order to enter the class at all. Isn't that part of the spirit of amateur racing?

flier129

iTrader: (7)

I honestly think they wrote "R7s only for ST4/TT4" into 2022 Nationals solely because of community support of it(on NASA's forum). ST1-3 and TT1-3 aren't required to run Hoosiers at nationals, which is the main reason why I think it was written in from client feedback.

I hope they don't make the Hoosier a spec tire nationally for ST4/TT4. Like y'all have said, running on other tires is key to bring in the numbers into ST/TT. I fully expect regional races to see Hoosiers vs Toyo/Maxxis/super200s, especially W2W.

NASA's rules certainly don't favor Hoosiers in 2022 and they have been changing the rules to help push out Hoosiers for years now.

Crarrs

iTrader: (1)

If NASA decides the shove through a spec R7 for ST4 across the whole organization, it's going to blow up the WERC enduros because most of the E1 teams were not running Hoosiers. That's a complete rethink for a lot of those teams for how their cars are built, and how they approach a 6 hour race. The WERC director is going to have an upheaval --and a significantly different rule book-- if they need to let people run RRs or 200TW on cars built to the "old" ST4 rules. I don't think it would be a positive change for the enduro program if they force all of E1 into that box.

Arca_ex

iTrader: (2)

I'd suggest we all start posting in that thread...


https://community.drivenasa.com/topi...oday/#comments

engineered2win

But how many ST/TT1-3 cars aren't running Hoosiers? I don't know of any competitive guys in Great Lakes region that weren't on Hoho's the last few years.