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Old 03-22-2016, 03:50 PM   #741
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Is the sleeve around the shock too big to fit up in the extended top hat?
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Old 03-22-2016, 03:53 PM   #742
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You sure the noise isn't the sleeves hitting the tophats? Not sure who made your tophats but are they big enough to accommodate the coilover sleeve inside? At your ride height I have a hard time believe that the control arms are hitting.

Edit: Zellers beat me to it.

With that said I would gladly purchase those tophats from you if you can't get them to work. I have some NB hats I could throw in as well.
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Old 03-22-2016, 04:03 PM   #743
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Just by looking at it, I would expect coil bind would happen before the sleeves could hit the top hat? There looks like less than 2" between the spring seat and the sop of the sleeve. Maybe the coils can compress to smaller than that.

If that's the case, I doubt there's any off-the-shelf top hat that can clear coilover sleeves. My eBay sleeves (which granted have a little clearance in diameter) are like 2.3" OD, which is about the same diameter as the chassis hole.
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Old 03-22-2016, 04:24 PM   #744
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itskv

I use the Two Six top hats with the same MSM shocks on my NB. I have my sleeves (Allstar) cut back enough for the shock bodies to fit up inside the top hats. Never had any 'metal to metal' sounds.

You should check the top of the sleeves (your fronts don't look cut back much at all) for any contact.

Otherwise, I have 7" fronts where you have 6" but 7" rears.

Regarding your comment on "droop", raising the car UP or letting the tire drop DOWN does the same thing. Maybe you are hearing a front spring unseat but I guess it'd need to be a pretty big pothole.

I'm also @ 12-1/4F & 12-1/2R but the collars are at the bottom & fully engaged on the sleeves. NB...
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Old 03-22-2016, 06:51 PM   #745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bahurd View Post
itskv

I use the Two Six top hats with the same MSM shocks on my NB. I have my sleeves (Allstar) cut back enough for the shock bodies to fit up inside the top hats. Never had any 'metal to metal' sounds.

You should check the top of the sleeves (your fronts don't look cut back much at all) for any contact.

Otherwise, I have 7" fronts where you have 6" but 7" rears.

Regarding your comment on "droop", raising the car UP or letting the tire drop DOWN does the same thing. Maybe you are hearing a front spring unseat but I guess it'd need to be a pretty big pothole.

I'm also @ 12-1/4F & 12-1/2R but the collars are at the bottom & fully engaged on the sleeves. NB...

Hey Bahurd,

The pictures i posted were beforecut in the fronts. I had cut them down 20mm from the top, tried not to cut too much cause of the inner sleeve that holds the sleeve in place.

How much had you cut them? I can either cut them or move the sleeves down. Can the circlips be reused?
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Old 03-22-2016, 07:06 PM   #746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itskv View Post
Hey Bahurd,

The pictures i posted were beforecut in the fronts. I had cut them down 20mm from the top, tried not to cut too much cause of the inner sleeve that holds the sleeve in place.

How much had you cut them? I can either cut them or move the sleeves down. Can the circlips be reused?
If I recall, the two six hats are 3/4" so 20mm should be fine. And you'd be compressing the bump stops anyway so you should be good.

What are your spring rates? Sorry on phone app...
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Old 03-23-2016, 02:44 AM   #747
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Originally Posted by bahurd View Post
If I recall, the two six hats are 3/4" so 20mm should be fine. And you'd be compressing the bump stops anyway so you should be good.

What are your spring rates? Sorry on phone app...
Bahurd,

The fronts were initially cut 20mm, today I took off another 5mm. This leaves the sleeves at 4", 100mm. I also did this to the rears.

I have 6" 600lb, 7" 400lb.

Almost all of the noises are gone! I still get some of the contact noises from abrupt bumps/potholes. I'm not purposely slamming my suspension into these bumps, cruising at 30-40mph on some empty roads with imperfections.

So far, I am happy with it now. I may entertain the idea of bump stop spacers/packers to take up some of the travel by having the bump stops activated earlier...


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The Better Bilstein Ebay Coilover Thread-df5bc90d5dbe87faab3e591875c852d1.jpg   The Better Bilstein Ebay Coilover Thread-37b6c3bea7fc7e39129bdf8707d09087.jpg  
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Old 05-04-2016, 11:06 PM   #748
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How does this look? I only hand tightened the shocks, I didn't want to go macho man and end up destroying my shocks.
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Old 05-23-2016, 02:21 PM   #749
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I was under the impression that MSM shocks were physically longer than the Hard S shocks, but when I went to swap them that doesn't appear to be the case. I'm not sure if I'm just too dumb and didn't understand what I was reading or if this is a common misconception. The Hard S shocks did compress farther, so maybe that's what I was the source of my confusion.

Any way, picture of rear shocks next to each other (Hard S off a 10AE on left, MSM on right). They were physically the same size, length and height. The MSM shocks were tougher to compress but otherwise identical.

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Last edited by pdexta; 05-25-2016 at 09:34 AM. Reason: Compression depth confirmed to be the same
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Old 05-23-2016, 02:21 PM   #750
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.
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Last edited by pdexta; 05-23-2016 at 08:56 PM. Reason: Double post
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Old 05-23-2016, 02:27 PM   #751
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Fronts are the same too right ? MSM vs Hard S?
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Old 05-23-2016, 02:35 PM   #752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Girz0r View Post
Fronts are the same too right ? MSM vs Hard S?
See here:






Some of the confusion stems from the earlier, uncorrected version of the front lengths:

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The Better Bilstein Ebay Coilover Thread-na_nb_miata_front_shock_lengths.jpg   The Better Bilstein Ebay Coilover Thread-na_nb_miata_rear_shock_lengths.jpg  
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Old 05-23-2016, 02:38 PM   #753
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^ beat me to it!
Attached Thumbnails
The Better Bilstein Ebay Coilover Thread-80-na_nb_miata_front_shock_lengths_a5a3c21246e875994ac8825775947d6fb6ceb940.jpg   The Better Bilstein Ebay Coilover Thread-80-na_nb_miata_rear_shock_lengths_e18b88f91cc75d397955b7b82be29165b28da4dd.jpg  

Last edited by bahurd; 05-23-2016 at 02:39 PM. Reason: redundant
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Old 05-23-2016, 07:04 PM   #754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdexta View Post
The Hard S shocks did compress farther, so maybe that was the source of my confusion.

... The Hard S compressed about an inch farther down....
That doesn't sound right. I have a set of Hard S and a set of MSMs and when they've been off the car they both compress the full length of the shaft to the shoulder (end of the chromed part of shaft).

When you compress the MSM fully, is there still a length (about an inch) of chromed shock shaft left? (would be a bit of a worry, on lowered cars that's a good portion of the bump travel available!).
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Old 05-23-2016, 09:06 PM   #755
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Damnnnn, I wish I'd seen that chart before going to all that trouble of tracking down another set and pulling them out. Thanks for posting though, hopefully it saves other people some time/money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkwhale View Post
That doesn't sound right. I have a set of Hard S and a set of MSMs and when they've been off the car they both compress the full length of the shaft to the shoulder (end of the chromed part of shaft).

When you compress the MSM fully, is there still a length (about an inch) of chromed shock shaft left? (would be a bit of a worry, on lowered cars that's a good portion of the bump travel available!).
That was my experience. I'd certainly be interested if someone else found another result. My test method of bouncing on them in the driveway was far from scientific but the MSM shock definitely didn't seem to want to go down as far for me.
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Old 05-24-2016, 06:23 PM   #756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdexta View Post
That was my experience. I'd certainly be interested if someone else found another result. My test method of bouncing on them in the driveway was far from scientific but the MSM shock definitely didn't seem to want to go down as far for me.
I've got some MSMs sitting in my lounge atm, I'll try it when I'm home and get a pic.
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Old 05-25-2016, 04:12 AM   #757
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Not the best pic - surprisingly hard to keep it fully compressed and take a photo at the same time:


(that's a rear msm bilstein btw)
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Old 05-25-2016, 09:31 AM   #758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkwhale View Post
Not the best pic - surprisingly hard to keep it fully compressed and take a photo at the same time:

(that's a rear msm bilstein btw)
Thanks for doing that. Looks just like what my Hard S did, mine must have gotten hung up somehow (I'll edit my post above). It looks like MSM and Hard S are identical as far as size, length, and compression depth.
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Old 05-25-2016, 09:44 AM   #759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Cat Motorsports
The OE NB shocks are a study in going from comfortable to firmer to very stiff (Showa to Hard S Bilstein to Mazdaspeed Bilstein). We have a video here explaining the differences. The latter two (Hard S and MSM Bilstein) may feel stiffer than the aftermarket NB HD or Sport but actually have less mid and high speed damping which is vital for control on larger bumps. Unfortunately, putting stiffer springs on any NB Bilstein can be a disappointing experience if you live in an area with broken pavement.

http://www.fatcatmotorsports.com/FAQ2.htm
FWIW.
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Old 05-25-2016, 07:37 PM   #760
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Speaking of lengths, can any of you who have these apart measure from the middle of the eyelet to the top of the snap ring?
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