Spring length..Short travel - Page 3 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 11-12-2010, 11:40 AM   #41
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Brain, looking at your pic I would say that your spring was way to long. What was the length and rate? Is this the setup your still on?
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Old 11-12-2010, 11:41 AM   #42
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actually, the longer the spring the better to combat coil bind.

here's a 7" at rest at the same ride height.




I still run that same blue spring yes. just with NB mounts. its great now, tons of travel before bumpz
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Old 11-12-2010, 11:48 AM   #43
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So in effect by switching from from ISC to NB you just moved the bump stop down so it contacts before the springs bind. The benifit of the ISC hats is around 300 rear you don't have to run any bump stops at all. The car would actually frame out before anything else would contact.

To the op: I wouldn't run very much preload without fully understanding how it works. If you installed it the way it is pictured then you have way too much shock up in the spring, adjust the lower shock body to get rid of that so your adjuster is around 1" from the top at your correct ride height on the ground. We have a guy in town running gr+ with no problems.

Last edited by jacob300zx; 11-12-2010 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 11-12-2010, 12:06 PM   #44
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pretty much.
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Old 11-12-2010, 01:45 PM   #45
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I had two soccer games last night, and I was too effing tired to mess with the car by the time I got home. I've got no plans tonight, so it's going up on stands tonight for sure; even if my girlfriend hates me for ruining her Friday night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
here's the proper way to set up an adjustable body shock for maximum BUMP travel for posterity:


1. jack up car and put on jackstands (rear at least)
2. pull the sway bar from at least one side
3. remove a shock and remove its spring. reassemble it normally just without the spring
4. shorten the shock body to the minimum but dont lock the collar.
5. install the wheel on that side
6. jack up the suspension arm on that side slowly and see what contacts first: tire or bumpstop or something else
7. lower the suspension arm and lengthen/shorten the shock until the arm jacks up with the shock hitting the bumpstop and the tire clearing everything by 1" (you should be able to reach your hand around and feel)
8. lock the collar for the shock length adjustment down.
9. reinstall the spring and the full coilover and then repeat on the other side of the car (or measure the shock body length and transfer it.

10. then once the shocks are all installed and happy, jack the suspension arm again and roughly set your ride height by turning THE SPRING PRELOAD COLLAR.

11. match the other side
12. lower and verify height. repeat til satisfied. don't touch the shock body length.

now you can ride super low without rubbing yourself the wrong way.
I've been adjusting height primarily through the lower mount. I unbolt the lower mount and screw/unscrew the mount accordingly to get the desired height. This could be my problem.

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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
yep.... so lengthen those bodies!!!!


after you do the zie tie test and say im correct of course...otherwise youll make it worse
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Originally Posted by jacob300zx View Post
To the op: I wouldn't run very much preload without fully understanding how it works. If you installed it the way it is pictured then you have way too much shock up in the spring, adjust the lower shock body to get rid of that so your adjuster is around 1" from the top at your correct ride height on the ground.
Just to make sure I'm understanding you guys correctly, if it's coil bind, I should lengthen the overall body length via the lower mount, then lower the spring perch. This in effect would reduce the overall piston travel by a small margin, but I will actually gain travel by reducing coil bind. Is that correct?

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Originally Posted by jacob300zx View Post
We have a guy in town running gr+ with no problems.
I'm sure that my problem is almost exclusively user error . I had the money and wanted suspension, so I just thought, "Let's get some coilovers." I'm not gonna lie, the main reason I wanted coilovers was to lower the car. I've had them on the car a good while, but I'm only just now really trying to learn proper suspension tuning.
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Old 11-12-2010, 01:56 PM   #46
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If you are coil binding, there are really only 2 solutions, either lower the springs on the dampers and raise the dampers within the lower mounts so that your bumpstops become the limiting factor, or else get longer springs. I would suggest longer springs. If you change your setup so that you use the bumpstop to prevent coil bind, you are effectively taking a chain with a weak link (coil bind) and making one of the stronger links (damper travel) weaker than the first so that you dont have to worry about the link that was originally weak. In the end, the chain as a whole is weaker than before. You really need to fix the coil bind by lengthening your coil to something that wasn't designed for a 1000lb kit car.
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Old 11-12-2010, 03:04 PM   #47
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he has adjustable shock bodies, so he can add length the shock. if he lowers the perch in the same relative position, then the shock will hit the bumpstop sooner and still be at the same ride height.




the shock on the right is less likely to coil bind.
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Spring length..Short travel-shock_length.jpg  
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Old 11-12-2010, 03:27 PM   #48
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I hope the top of his shock body can fit through the upper mount hole if need be...
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Old 11-12-2010, 04:14 PM   #49
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Quote:
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I hope the top of his shock body can fit through the upper mount hole if need be...
Why?
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Old 11-12-2010, 05:26 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacob300zx View Post
So in effect by switching from from ISC to NB you just moved the bump stop down so it contacts before the springs bind. The benifit of the ISC hats is around 300 rear you don't have to run any bump stops at all. The car would actually frame out before anything else would contact.

To the op: I wouldn't run very much preload without fully understanding how it works. If you installed it the way it is pictured then you have way too much shock up in the spring, adjust the lower shock body to get rid of that so your adjuster is around 1" from the top at your correct ride height on the ground. We have a guy in town running gr+ with no problems.
ISC uses the bilsteins without a bumpstop. I opted to use a 46mm bumpstop with a 7 inch 300# spring. I can feel the bumpstop engage over really big bumps.
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Old 11-15-2010, 11:24 AM   #51
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So, here's the weekend update. I didn't get a chance to take the rears out until Saturday night, but here's what I found. Here are the rear coilovers at full droop:




Here is what the assembly looked like out of the car:



Here is the bumpstop, crammed up in the top hat:



Notice how worn the bottom of the bumpstop is. Here's why:



I didn't even get around to doing a zip tie test because after seeing the bumpstop and the top of the shock body where the bumpstop is making contact, it's pretty clear that I'm hitting the bumpstops and not coil binding. Here's a picture of the springs with not visible damage or wear form any coil bind.



I'm pretty sure I've found the culprit in my suspension woes.



Here's a few more pics to show how the adjustments work:




So, now I'm back to thinking I need new springs again. Any ideas?
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Old 11-15-2010, 11:31 AM   #52
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Do what I said earlier, make the shock only show around 1" of threads above the adjuster when set for your ride height. You have way to much shock stuffed up in there.
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Old 11-15-2010, 11:34 AM   #53
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So I was wrong. Just shorten the shock body. that will equate for more shock travel before hitting the bumps.
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Old 11-15-2010, 09:08 PM   #54
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Quote:
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Do what I said earlier, make the shock only show around 1" of threads above the adjuster when set for your ride height. You have way to much shock stuffed up in there.
Do you mean to pre-load the shock?
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Old 11-15-2010, 09:22 PM   #55
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pre-load the **** out of those springs until you get longer springs in the mail (cant 'shorten' the shock body because it's already at full extension at full droop)

and then get 7" or 8" 300/350lb springs and replace them ASAP, and then preload the new springs to the same pressure to get a functional suspension setup

Last edited by fooger03; 11-15-2010 at 09:40 PM.
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Old 11-15-2010, 11:56 PM   #56
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I actually called Stance today. I should have some new springs soon.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:46 AM   #57
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having the springs drop at full droop isn't such a big deal...if you were tracking sure, but on the street it's not a big deal at all.
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Old 11-16-2010, 11:32 AM   #58
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longer springs are not the solution. let the springs be loose. nobody cares. you're not jumping off ramps. just increase the shock length and preload accordingly.

longer springs will be just as loose because you have to back the preload back down by the additional spring length unless you plan to ride 7 feet in the air.
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Old 11-16-2010, 04:34 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
longer springs are not the solution. let the springs be loose. nobody cares. you're not jumping off ramps. just increase the shock length and preload accordingly.

longer springs will be just as loose because you have to back the preload back down by the additional spring length unless you plan to ride 7 feet in the air.
When I spoke with Stance, they told me that they don't assemble them with anything shorter than 6" springs on them. I emailed them the same pictures that I posted up on here to show them what was going on. If they are supposed to be fitted with 6 inchers, I'd like to have them on there to rule out spring length as the problem; especially if I can get a deal on them.
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Old 11-16-2010, 05:25 PM   #60
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You might consider ordering real springs like Hyperco or Swift:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._3777240_n.jpg
My 700/400lb springs are both a smaller in wire diameter than your spring, and have one less coil and a smaller diameter spring. The Swift springs are really light too.

Last edited by hustler; 11-16-2010 at 05:54 PM.
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