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Old 11-18-2010, 04:31 PM   #81
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I didn't think teins were even considered anymore.
It's a "lifestyle damper".
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Old 11-18-2010, 04:33 PM   #82
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I'm joining that lifestyle. But I understand what I'm getting into.
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Old 11-18-2010, 05:09 PM   #83
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Off topic:
If you can afford tein flex or mono, you can afford Xida.
Currently looking at a used set of FLEX so I can revalve the front to handle 10k springs. Twin or Mono Flex, I'd have at least a discount from a vendor somewhere. XIDAs are fixed at $1900 from 949.
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Old 11-18-2010, 08:32 PM   #84
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Illuminas are cheaper than flex and about as good. Monoflex would be a good deal if you can find a used set.
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Old 11-18-2010, 09:40 PM   #85
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Currently looking at a used set of FLEX so I can revalve the front to handle 10k springs. Twin or Mono Flex, I'd have at least a discount from a vendor somewhere. XIDAs are fixed at $1900 from 949.
So you're going to buy used shocks for roughly $1k, spend $75-100 in shipping and pay $600 for the revalving and still heave boat anchors with inferior valving?
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Old 11-19-2010, 01:47 AM   #86
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Hustler, do you know Colin or AC? AC drives a red n/a NA and Colin drives a supercharged NB. They are both here in Austin and are running the event on Saturday.
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Old 11-19-2010, 11:06 AM   #87
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For that much $$$ get Monoflex or wait for Xida CS.
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Old 11-19-2010, 02:09 PM   #88
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The only way I can think of springs being problematically short is if you have coil bind. If you don't have coil bind...what will longer springs fix? Yeah, dangling springs at full droop is kind of ghetto, but almost certainly not ever going to be an actual problem.

Lower the shock body almost to the bottom. Then raise the spring until you have at 5" from the ground to the pinch weld. This should be a good staring point.

Also, again, the term "pre-load" is confusing and not very useful, IMO. Pre-load, actual pre-load, is a term that really only has meaning when the car isn't sitting on its suspension. There is no pre-load when the car is sitting on its own wheels, only when on jack stands or flying through the air. Instead, think of it as ride height. When you move that collar up, the car goes up.


EDIT: Sorry, didn't read a lot of that newer ****.

If you can set the car up so that it won't coil bind, and all your problems are from the stops, then just buy better stops. You can have a really jank set-up and still have decent ride if your stops are nice and smooshy. It makes a ENORMOUS difference in ride. Obviously a lot of people like Fat Cat Motorsports, but I'm running fairly run of the mill Super Pros with no issues. I'm as low as you are, I'm on 200/300 springs with Illumina shocks, and most of my ride harshness is actually from having 949 end links that wear out every 6 weeks or so.
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Old 11-19-2010, 02:25 PM   #89
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that's why i suggested really soft tall bumps.

my koni sports with trimmed 45mm bumps or so is extremely forgiving in the rear, because I've maximized travel before coil bind.
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Old 11-19-2010, 03:12 PM   #90
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So you're going to buy used shocks for roughly $1k, spend $75-100 in shipping and pay $600 for the revalving and still heave boat anchors with inferior valving?
It'd be about a total of $1000 with fronts revalved for 10k. 800 if i skip the revalve for now. Like I said I'm on sub-par coil-overs...Megan Racing shocks-- I have shock dynos for them that supposedly claim they adjust more rebound than compression, but from what I feel on the street and track on different settings I tend to disagree (my other car has rebound only adjustments so I'm familiar w/ how rebound changes SHOULD feel like). If you think I should just skip the TEINs and wait til the XIDAs are more attainable, then I'm open to suggestions. This is all just for fun for me, so I don't need the most expensive suspension, especially when $$$ is ultimately what keeps me from having fun (track day fees add up). For example, I may miss my next track day if I swap to TEINs... the car is already aligned and DIY corn. balanced.
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Old 11-19-2010, 03:14 PM   #91
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make what you have work. go tiens only if mono.
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Old 11-19-2010, 06:07 PM   #92
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Flex work fine with 10kgs up front on standard valving.
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Old 11-19-2010, 07:04 PM   #93
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Flex work fine with 10kgs up front on standard valving.
I'd believe that. I run them at full soft or one click off full soft with the 7/6 standard rates.
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Old 11-29-2010, 02:06 PM   #94
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I didn't run because I'm on three nearly bald Azenis and one nearly bald random used Goodyear. I've got brand new Falken Zeix 912s that are going on this weekend, and I'll hopefully have fresh pads on by Dec. 5 for the next event. I need to do my homework on the class specs, too.
Have you been able to solve the problem yet? What solution did you find? After finally being able to use RE-11s this weekend (have only used ZE912 all seasons thus far), it seems I am at the bumpstops too. Will be checking where the zip-ties end up once I remove the 6ULs. I am on 8kg/mm in the rear, and I have similar shaft travel lengths as the STANCE units, though I do not know how big the STANCE bumpstops are. I am contemplating either shortening the bumps and/or preloading the spring to be rid of maybe 1/2 total vehicle sag.
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Old 11-29-2010, 03:10 PM   #95
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All I've done so far is crank up the rears to the stiffest dampening settings. I've ordered the bumpstops and will report on those when they are on the car. The Stance bumpstops are tiny, so I'm sure anything will help the ride quality right now. Preload didn't help me at all, but I'm only on 6k in the rear.
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Old 11-29-2010, 03:45 PM   #96
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Have you measured the available travel in the rear? I have 3" of travel in front and 2" in the rear, which should be comparable to yours depending on the thickness of your bumpstops. After vehicle sag, it gets rid of at least 1"... moreso with softer 6kg springs. 336lbs/in and a corner is more or less 560 lbs.

If you only ordered longer bumpstops, you will have the same problem in my opinion. Preload (how much did you pre-load?) will only help in gaining some travel but has its side-effects. The preload affects response on compression and rebound stroke.
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Old 11-30-2010, 02:13 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greeenteeee View Post
Have you measured the available travel in the rear? I have 3" of travel in front and 2" in the rear, which should be comparable to yours depending on the thickness of your bumpstops. After vehicle sag, it gets rid of at least 1"... moreso with softer 6kg springs. 336lbs/in and a corner is more or less 560 lbs.
No, I haven't measured it for myself, but Emilio has...
Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Xida CS & S are the exact same damper. Different mounts.

CR.net post on a set of Stance dampers I had dyno'd a few years ago.
http://clubroadster.net/vb_forum/sho...2&postcount=75
Quote:
Originally Posted by greeenteeee View Post
If you only ordered longer bumpstops, you will have the same problem in my opinion. Preload (how much did you pre-load?) will only help in gaining some travel but has its side-effects. The preload affects response on compression and rebound stroke.
I'm not on the bump stops under hard cornering. The suspension is great over smooth roads and performs well in the corners. I'm only trying to lessen the harshness over shitty roads. For what I'm trying to accomplish, better bump stops should be a step in the right direction. I still want to get some better springs in the rear, too, but I've got more important things to spend money on right now.
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Old 11-30-2010, 05:19 AM   #98
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No, I haven't measured it for myself, but Emilio has...
He measured stroke but did not mention the size of the bumpstops. Do you know the size of the STANCE bumpstops?

STANCE:
104mm Front
76mm Rear

For comparison, I have 115mm of shock stroke up front (~4.5") but with 10kg/mm (560lbs/in) front rates, and the weight of my car, it leaves 3" of room at full droop. Yet, from daily driving for a few months since adding the ziptie after the last alignment, the ziptie was maxed out-- bumpstop pressed up. I don't know how much travel after total sag, but consider my 10kg/mm and 8kg/mm rates when comparing to yours.

Granted, you have 8/6 (448/336), 11mm less front travel than I do up front, while with my 10/8 rates and bumpstop sizes, all of my travel is being used up. Considering our spring rates and weight (aren't NBs heavier than NA6's?) I'm sure your car is bottoming out too. (I daily on 205" ZE912s, and the zips were maxed out with those tires-- who knows how much they mashed into the stops w/ RE-11s this weekend)

fooger's setup looks to have a lot more travel than you and I.
Specs:
425lb/in 7" front looks to have 4" of travel WITH bumpstop and with
300lb/in 8" rear, it looks to have 4" (estimated through photos, fooger may have the official #s...).

hustler's has 1.5" travel AFTER total sag w/ 500lbs/in springs. It'd take 1500 lbs of force on that corner for him to bottom out.
EDIT:::: forgot to figure in the wheel motion ratio, hustler says it's 3:1, I've seen 1.6:1 being thrown around...


Quote:
I'm not on the bump stops under hard cornering. The suspension is great over smooth roads and performs well in the corners. I'm only trying to lessen the harshness over shitty roads. For what I'm trying to accomplish, better bump stops should be a step in the right direction. I still want to get some better springs in the rear, too, but I've got more important things to spend money on right now.
Sorry, but you said so in the OP,

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Originally Posted by chricto View Post
This is a potentially dumb question. Sorry, but I'm still learning. I'm hitting the bumpstops on my rear coilovers when I go over medium to large bumps. Can I remedy this with longer or stiffer springs? Currently the springs are 6in, and I was thinking of stepping up to a 7in spring. The rear rates are 6kg/mm or 336 lbs/in. Or is this not even a spring problem at all, and the dampers are just under damped?
...and you took pictures proving that the bumpstop was hitting. Longer bumpstops will make you hit them more. I just don't think making it bottom out against a softer bumpstop or longer bumpstop is the solution. You shouldn't be hitting the bumpstops at all.

Last edited by greeenteeee; 12-01-2010 at 02:04 PM.
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:56 AM   #99
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What the **** are you trying to prove? I was never arguing that I wasn't hitting the bump stops. I want better bump stops so the ride is less harsh on bad roads; so when the bump stops engage, the impact isn't as hard. I don't see the point in upping the spring rates on these coilovers when they can't handle that much more as it is. You are comparing Hustler's, fooger's, mine, and your set ups only taking spring rates into consideration and not thinking about the dampening abilities (or inabilities) of my shitty coilovers. I'm bottoming out more on these things more than I ever was on the stock Bilsteins with less the 200lb/in springs in the rear. Spring rates aren't everything. I've accepted the fact that the weak'ish dampening of my rears mixed with the short overall travel make for poor road manners on adverse road surfaces.
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Old 12-01-2010, 01:05 AM   #100
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Was just trying to help you out man. I don't think suspension should ever be hitting the bumpstops, but that's just my 2 cents.

I looked at the spring rates, because the softer the rates, the more shock travel is lost from the weight of the car alone, which makes the problem of too little shock travel... worse!

I never knocked the STANCE setup, I wanted STANCE over my Megans, but I couldn't afford em. jacob300zx even knows someone on the same coil-overs without issue, and in the last Miata Challenge event, the winner was urban/leonard, an NB on Stance coil-overs..
http://www.clubroadster.net/vb_forum...7&postcount=42
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