There's too many coilover options (11 page thread to explain 80 page thread) - Page 11 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Go Back  Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats. > Performance & Tuning > Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain
Reload this Page >

There's too many coilover options (11 page thread to explain 80 page thread)

Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain discuss the wondrous effects of boost and your miata...
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

There's too many coilover options (11 page thread to explain 80 page thread)

Old 08-30-2018, 12:31 AM
  #201  
Junior Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Bay Area- East Bay
Posts: 453
Total Cats: 19
Default

here you go about complaining about reading again. No one cares that you don't want to figure things out with your own hard work. Honestly with very little research you would find out which vendors to look for certain parts. So many have stated the same answers over and over you have to be retarded to not connect the dots. No one wants to hold your hand. There is no reason to buy or switch out parts a tons of times becuase all you have to do is read. Conclude. Purchase. It takes no trial and error. Just research. You have only been here since june and you think you are owed answers? You feel you don't need to read through all the 80 whopping pages. WOW
brainzata is offline  
Old 08-30-2018, 12:36 AM
  #202  
Bannisheded
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: PA
Posts: 81
Total Cats: -77
Default

Well you cancer encouraging meat sacks, concealer404 made a quite informative post... on a completely different forum... which hits on all of the topics I had issues with..... So linking to that maybe the second post after calling me out for being a dumbass would have been nice.

Link for the lazy (like me): https://www.clubroadster.net/vb_foru...n-ballers.html
ThePanduuh is offline  
Reply
Leave a poscat -3 Leave a negcat
Old 08-30-2018, 08:01 AM
  #203  
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
concealer404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 9,613
Total Cats: 1,209
Default

Whoa. Did you find that ALL BY YOURSELF? That's CRAZY.

That post is also a bit outdated and i don't bother to keep up on it because 1) That forum doesn't care about performance and 2) anyone who wants a system truly tailored for their needs will do the research necessary to use that post as nothing more than a starting point, and order of assembly.

And that's the problem with this entire thread. In this thread you were TOLD to use NB B8 shocks, 5xracing/Allstar sleeves/perches, cut your own bumpstops according to which top hats you use, that you need 4 extended top hats, and a range of spring rates were recommended to you. And yet, everyone who helped you is an *******. You do understand how silly that is, right? It's not just me?
concealer404 is offline  
Old 08-30-2018, 08:22 AM
  #204  
Bannisheded
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: PA
Posts: 81
Total Cats: -77
Default

Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Whoa. Did you find that ALL BY YOURSELF? That's CRAZY.

That post is also a bit outdated and i don't bother to keep up on it because 1) That forum doesn't care about performance and 2) anyone who wants a system truly tailored for their needs will do the research necessary to use that post as nothing more than a starting point, and order of assembly.

And that's the problem with this entire thread. In this thread you were TOLD to use NB B8 shocks, 5xracing/Allstar sleeves/perches, cut your own bumpstops according to which top hats you use, that you need 4 extended top hats, and a range of spring rates were recommended to you. And yet, everyone who helped you is an *******. You do understand how silly that is, right? It's not just me?
and my question was WHY do I need X Y and Z. When Iíve had a few people tell me I donít need front extended hats, and now you say I do? Is it because of the spring rate or the bilstein shaft? If it is the shaft, then if I decide to use different shocks I may or may not need extended hats depending on what shocks I can get.
To be fair, I did read and did learn, but most of the questions I had were better answered elsewhere as here all I got told to do was read more...
ThePanduuh is offline  
Reply
Leave a poscat -3 Leave a negcat
Old 08-30-2018, 08:43 AM
  #205  
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago. (The non-murder part.)
Posts: 27,743
Total Cats: 2,335
Default

Originally Posted by ThePanduuh View Post
and my question was WHY do I need X Y and Z. When I’ve had a few people tell me I don’t need front extended hats, and now you say I do? Is it because of the spring rate or the bilstein shaft? If it is the shaft, then if I decide to use different shocks I may or may not need extended hats depending on what shocks I can get.
You need extended top hats if the shock body length artificially limits your suspension travel to significantly less than that which is limited by the other factors of the suspension geometry, such as spring binding, tire-body interference, internal shock travel, and control arm travel.

This seems like a simple concept to grasp.
Joe Perez is offline  
Old 08-30-2018, 08:48 AM
  #206  
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
concealer404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 9,613
Total Cats: 1,209
Default

Originally Posted by ThePanduuh View Post
and my question was WHY do I need X Y and Z. When Iíve had a few people tell me I donít need front extended hats, and now you say I do? Is it because of the spring rate or the bilstein shaft? If it is the shaft, then if I decide to use different shocks I may or may not need extended hats depending on what shocks I can get.
To be fair, I did read and did learn, but most of the questions I had were better answered elsewhere as here all I got told to do was read more...
The "Why" is readily available if you read basic information about how suspensions work, which seems like it should be a requirement for anyone deciding to put together their own coilover system.

The issue is that you're trying to skip to the end. Showing your work is for YOUR benefit, not ours.

You NEED extended top hats in the back. I HIGHLY suggest extended top hats in the front. The reason why is: Travel.
concealer404 is offline  
Old 08-30-2018, 09:33 AM
  #207  
Newb
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Boca Raton
Posts: 44
Total Cats: 19
Default

Originally Posted by brainzata View Post
Most here have read through everything possible in order to come to conclusions by themselves rather than trust in one single opinion. You are just too ******* lazy. No one deserves to be spoon fed off others hard work. It's your job to use others hard work to make your own conclusion and not start demanding time from others to help you decide because you don't want to put in the effort to figure it out. Get off your race car bed and go find answers by yourself so you can be sure through lots of reading that you found a common answer and it makes sense to you. Not just because someone told you so.
Coming from the perspective of a newb, I found the better bilstein thread and this one pretty clear IMO. Plenty of discussion, pics, logs of exactly what people were buying and where to buy it. It's a long thread and it took me a few reads to digest the info, but i'm better for it vs. having been spoonfed info since it let me come to my own conclusions based on my own goals .A sticky thread on the 78 pages in the bilstein thread would take away from the metric **** ton of good info in it IMO.



sometorque is offline  
Old 08-30-2018, 10:58 AM
  #208  
Bannisheded
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: PA
Posts: 81
Total Cats: -77
Default

Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
You need extended top hats if the shock body length artificially limits your suspension travel to significantly less than that which is limited by the other factors of the suspension geometry, such as spring binding, tire-body interference, internal shock travel, and control arm travel.

This seems like a simple concept to grasp.
I understand that. But I don't have shocks, springs, top hats, and bump stops in front of me to tell if there will be any issues at the desired ride height... which is why I asked the question.

Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
You NEED extended top hats in the back. I HIGHLY suggest extended top hats in the front. The reason why is: Travel.
Which is why I planned on grabbing a full set of 1" extended hats.
ThePanduuh is offline  
Reply
Leave a poscat -1 Leave a negcat
Old 09-03-2018, 05:15 PM
  #209  
Junior Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Bay Area- East Bay
Posts: 453
Total Cats: 19
Default

I think you are one the the easy button guys. So why didn't you just go click "buy xida" and be done. You won't have to bother to learn anything and cut right to the chase! You still haven't figured out what you should buy because you haven't gotten a grasp on what each part of the coilovers function is and how a different spec/size effect another, or the performance. Go watch some under the car footage on miatas and really get an understanding how the suspension as a whole works with each other. It should help you see when you change one thing whether it be an adjustment, stiffer or longer spring, taller hats, lower ride height, that there are a number of other factors that get affected. Seriusly though, just buy some ******* xidas, how much are you really going to save on some other set up, with the high chance of it still not being adequate.
brainzata is offline  
Old 09-03-2018, 11:17 PM
  #210  
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Woostuh, MA
Posts: 3,691
Total Cats: 108
Default

And you ****'s thought I was bad....
ridethecliche is offline  
Old 09-03-2018, 11:57 PM
  #211  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lakewood (Green Mountain) CO.
Posts: 233
Total Cats: -39
Default

Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
And you ****'s thought I was bad....
Please, you haven't lived until you are at least -10 cats!

Which is great, as I'm a dog guy who flat out hates those disgusting felines!
The Driver is offline  
Reply
Leave a poscat -4 Leave a negcat
Old 09-05-2018, 11:35 PM
  #212  
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 3,146
Total Cats: 137
Default

Originally Posted by 2slow View Post
Jerrick, Emillio, Keith (not sure if you are on this board), Ryan/Brian (Good-Win),
Would you provide a set of CRD+ /Track, Xida, Fox, Vmaxx, Feal coil-overs to someone agreed upon to be neutral in this to be tested?

There are several characteristics that are important and everyone wants to know how well these setups would go against each other. I see important items as:
- best lap time that can be achieved in the same car
- street comfort
- adjustability
- parts availability
- warranty
- price


I mean if you are sure about your product being competitive, this seems like a good way to show it. I understand that each set cost $$ and there would be no expectation of giving them away for good - they would be returned (we can even pitch in to cover shipping cost for whoever is going to be doing testing), and you can provide a previously installed set if you want.
I just want to throw this out there for the giggles. A really good driver, aka Emilio and a few others here would beat your Xida, Fox, Feel, Veal, whatever lap times on a set of Bilsteins. If your tires are not contacting the body or shocks nailing the bump stops you are talking about small increments of lap times vs money spent. The Bilstein setup is great at not exploding or doing anything retarded under track abuse and a really budget guy could build a sub $500 set easily.

I say all this because I doubt many people other than a few expert would notice much of a difference on these $1500 plus coilovers with the exception of Emilio's electronic wizard shocks. That being said, this test would never happen. Too much $$$. I will make one more point though, the resale on a set of Ohlins or Xida is actually really good. Carry on boys...
jacob300zx is offline  
Old 09-06-2018, 12:04 AM
  #213  
VladiTuned
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 35,027
Total Cats: 3,086
Default

the resale on all good parts is always good. that's why us old timers get our jimmies rustled so much when kids choose to light their money on fire with garbage parts
18psi is offline  
Old 09-06-2018, 02:51 AM
  #214  
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 3,146
Total Cats: 137
Default

Just to clarify, in no way am I saying a Bilstein DIY setup is better than anything custom made and valved for a Miata. Just that the driver pays a bigger role in lap times than whatever shock you can throw on the car. Now, when it comes to street comfort, you can tell a big difference the more you spend. I'm actually running some retarded Raceland Optimos because I got them for $200 new and I like to test ****. They are better than blown shocks with the NB top hats but are scary loose on the street when driven aggressive. If I wasn't a C list actor level driver I would have wrecked it a couple of times goofing around on back roads. If anyone ever makes a "Supermiata Techna" aka budget shock, custom valved, they will own the sub $1200 market space.
jacob300zx is offline  
Old 09-06-2018, 02:14 PM
  #215  
Elite Member
iTrader: (4)
 
MartinezA92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 1,750
Total Cats: 38
Default

Originally Posted by The Driver View Post
I'm a dog guy who flat out hates those disgusting felines!
Yup, that's a ban.
MartinezA92 is offline  
Old 09-06-2018, 02:16 PM
  #216  
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago. (The non-murder part.)
Posts: 27,743
Total Cats: 2,335
Default

Originally Posted by MartinezA92 View Post
Yup, that's a ban.
And, just like that, he's gone.
Joe Perez is offline  
Old 09-06-2018, 02:22 PM
  #217  
VladiTuned
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 35,027
Total Cats: 3,086
Default

18psi is offline  
Old 09-06-2018, 02:30 PM
  #218  
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 4,839
Total Cats: 254
Default

Some things simply cannot be tolerated
Full_Tilt_Boogie is offline  
Old 09-06-2018, 02:32 PM
  #219  
Senior Member
 
Scaxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 904
Total Cats: 278
Default

Hahahahaha this thread has been ridiculous
Scaxx is offline  
Old 09-06-2018, 03:10 PM
  #220  
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
emilio700's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,707
Total Cats: 1,557
Default

Originally Posted by 2slow View Post
Jerrick, Emillio, Keith (not sure if you are on this board), Ryan/Brian (Good-Win),
Would you provide a set of CRD+ /Track, Xida, Fox, Vmaxx, Feal coil-overs to someone agreed upon to be neutral in this to be tested?

There are several characteristics that are important and everyone wants to know how well these setups would go against each other. I see important items as:
- best lap time that can be achieved in the same car
- street comfort
- adjustability
- parts availability
- warranty
- price


I mean if you are sure about your product being competitive, this seems like a good way to show it. I understand that each set cost $$ and there would be no expectation of giving them away for good - they would be returned (we can even pitch in to cover shipping cost for whoever is going to be doing testing), and you can provide a previously installed set if you want.
I would if I thought there was someone in the Miataverse skilled enough to identify the differences, articulate them and relate how those differences affect the user experience. Very few even know how to conduct a controlled test of this sort. It is expensive and very time consuming. I can see 2-3 members of my team being occupied for about two weeks, with 1-2 full days at a track, stack of tires. The few that qualify to conduct such an evaluation aren't people that would donate a few weeks of their time to do it. There is no party that would pay for this test.
What you end up with is unqualified youtube bloggers "testing" whatever parts they can get for free. Do what you will with the resultant "data".

We buy samples of many of our competitors products. With a few exceptions, we don't publish those test results. In a few cases, when we felt there was a safety concern, we either published a PSA and/or notified the vendor.

There will always be customers that rationalize the purchase of lower performing, lower quality, lower cost goods while convincing themselves that they perform as well as higher quality and higher cost goods.
There will always be good 80/20 bargains. Stuff that performs 80% as well, at 20% the cost of the best goods.
There will always be companies that erroneously promote their goods as equal in performance and quality to higher priced goods. It is easy to take advantage of the consumers lack of understanding. Just make it shiny, make bold claims without any data or science to back it up. Profit.
There will always be boutique/disruptive companies making innovative, state of the art goods that have to fight an uphill battle to educate the consumer about the product so they can make the best decision for their budget. No hype.
__________________


www.facebook.com/SuperMiata

949RACING.COM Home of the 6UL wheel

1:1FTW
Originally Posted by wannafbody View Post
.. since all the manufacturers list a 8.5 inch wheel max. That's a 1.5 inch stretch, are you really OK with that?
emilio700 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
hi_im_sean
Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain
311
10-01-2018 02:49 PM
the_enginear
Build Threads
238
07-16-2016 07:35 AM
samnavy
Insert BS here
30
11-21-2011 04:13 PM
mgeoffriau
Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain
13
06-17-2011 01:51 AM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: There's too many coilover options (11 page thread to explain 80 page thread)


Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.