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Old 08-05-2008, 08:20 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Zabac View Post
Abe-do you know anyone that goes to the auto-x nationals? If so, they can have your Konis revalved there for like $60/ea I believe and they do it within hours.
Good lord! I wish I'd known that. Anyway, I just shipped off the Koni's to... to koni. They'll give them a quick dyno and figure out if they are bad. One is, I'd say, the rest might be fine. I'll see what they say then decide.


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So you too have yours removed...I don't know why I don't like the idea.
I just have hopes that it can be tuned out by fiddling with the MR with adjustable endlinks.
Are there any negatives for running without a rear bar?
If no, then why does anyone even have a rear bar then? That's kind of along the lines of my thinking...I guess I just have to try it myself...next auto-x we'll do a bit of a test and tune on the rear sway bar.
Did you have to increase your rear tire pressure any to accomodate for more roll, or is that not something you mess around much with?
When I went to the sort rear bar set up, yeah, I noticed the back end would like to lag the rest of the car like I was towing a trailer. :-) You definately have to plan your turns a lot more, this sudden jerking leaves the car waiting to settle some amount. But the payoff is going through turns 20 mph faster than before and sticking over bumps. :-)

Honestly, as well as the car handles now, I think I want to go a BIT stiffer, it was more FUN.

And the OEM, non-sport shocks are pretty good on cut springs. I'm surprised at how much better it is than my questionable konis.

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remember... if you go HD you can sell your rebuildable konis on ebay for a nice chunk of change to offset the initial cost. there are a lot of folks that refuse to use bilsteins because they don't have a **** to turn.
Yeah - I might sell off the konis. Or I might decide the bilstiens are too rough. I haven't quite committed to buying the bilstiens yet, but I kinda think it's a good idea. Then I'll just try them and see.

Does anyone know what the Ground Control set up on a Bilstien looks like? For the konis there is this adapter ring (plastic, though it must be some awesome stuff, there's maybe a 2mm wide circle that takes ALL the load for the spring). I don't know if I need new threaded sleeves or just new adapter rings. The rings I could make, the sleeves... my lathe won't do 8 threads per inch.



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Off topic: If I've done the test where I drop the clutch with one tire in the sand and leave a big black burn out on the pavement, I *do* have a limited slip, right?
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:22 PM   #62
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Abe tell them to valve it like the NB HD shocks, but for your desired spring rates. FAR better than the NA valving.
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:13 PM   #63
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Abe tell them to valve it like the NB HD shocks, but for your desired spring rates. FAR better than the NA valving.
I think Abe has an NB and the HD's respectively...unless he sourced NA bilsteins...

Is the Hard S and the HD valving of the same type? Or is one better than the other?

Abe-would you agree that is you had a rear bar in place but only with a much softer bar-rate that it would be better than no bar at all? I want to say yes, but I haven't tried either myself yet.
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Old 08-06-2008, 02:46 PM   #64
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Abe tell them to valve it like the NB HD shocks, but for your desired spring rates. FAR better than the NA valving.
That's interesting, what's the difference? But anyway, you mean valve it as they do the factory NB Bilstiens?


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I think Abe has an NB and the HD's respectively...unless he sourced NA bilsteins...
Yeah - I have mounts for NA shocks, so I run NA shocks on the NB, and will get NA shocks.

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Abe-would you agree that is you had a rear bar in place but only with a much softer bar-rate that it would be better than no bar at all? I want to say yes, but I haven't tried either myself yet.
Er, I've heard from, you know, "people" that going to a smaller than stock rear bar is effectively like having no bar at all. I don't know how much the little rear bar we has does.

I was thinking of milling/filing/grinding two flats along the length of the bar, to effectivly thin it up, then compare it to another stocker... But so far I haven't had things figured out enough where I'm sure I would notice the difference. I'd have to give it to one of my friends who knows how to drive.
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Old 08-06-2008, 06:40 PM   #65
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Abe, can you do me a quick favor since you have the shocks out of the car? could you please post the lower eyelet to top mount distance at full extension and full compression for both front and rear?
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Old 08-06-2008, 07:13 PM   #66
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So you too have yours removed...I don't know why I don't like the idea.
I removed mine too for the same reason. No problems.
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Old 08-06-2008, 08:14 PM   #67
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525/350 w/ GCs, Koni Sports , RB 1.125 hollow front, no rear = badass
The car handles amazingly well. I can't wait to get it aligned now, I also have no desire to install a rear sway, its pretty much amazing the way it is right now.
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Old 08-06-2008, 09:00 PM   #68
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Huh, you don't get a rear-end-flapping-in-the-breeze effect?! I wouldn't say it was BAD, and it sure sticks, but I definately noticed it. Maybe it was going from an FM rear bar to 11mm, but I sure noticed the difference.

I also had less rear bias, i.e. 500/375 means proportionatly more spring (ratio of 1.33) to your 1.5. Perhaps that's why I needed my bar... I'd need to re-read up on roll-couple, the new rates I'm looking at running (750/500) are also 1.5.

The interesting thing is, when I said I wanted to run a rear bar, the 700 went to 750, meaning a higher number wants more rear bar.

Probably the deciding factor is actually the ride height - I've been running near stock.

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Originally Posted by The_Pipefather View Post
Abe, can you do me a quick favor since you have the shocks out of the car? could you please post the lower eyelet to top mount distance at full extension and full compression for both front and rear?
No, sorry, I can't! I just sent them out yesterday. I guess I should go ahead and order these bilstiens and then I can find out for you soon.
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Old 08-06-2008, 10:08 PM   #69
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As to the rear bar, my spring ratio is nearly identical to yours: 318/233 = 1.36. I find that the absence of a rear bar gives the vehicle absolutely perfect balance. It's smooth and predictable cornering under power, yet if I really want to, I can still swing the back end around with judicious application of the fun pedal.
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Old 08-06-2008, 10:12 PM   #70
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I'm also at 300/220=1.36. NB front bar, no rear bar, love it.
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Old 08-06-2008, 10:32 PM   #71
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I had the car out last night with a friend and took it around a empty subdivision. With the lack of an alignment the car handles really well and is very predictable as it sits. I can take it around corners with damn near perfect neutrality yet like Joe with some throttle I can steer the *** end out to my liking.
Its pretty damn amazing, I have no idea what it will be like with a good alignment.
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Old 08-06-2008, 11:25 PM   #72
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As to the rear bar, my spring ratio is nearly identical to yours: 318/233 = 1.36. I find that the absence of a rear bar gives the vehicle absolutely perfect balance. It's smooth and predictable cornering under power, yet if I really want to, I can still swing the back end around with judicious application of the fun pedal.
Do you have trouble being on the other side of things, a bit of understeery if you lift?

Anyway, the spring ratio is over simplifying, front roll couple is more invovled, and invovles ride height and sway choice. Meh.

Anyway, we'll see. Since I have 9 rear sway choices, and 4 front sway options, so it's not like there isn't a little room there. :-)
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Old 08-06-2008, 11:59 PM   #73
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I'm at 12.75" Front and 13" Rear with 36mm FCM bumpstops. Haven't checked my travel with zip ties yet.
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Old 08-07-2008, 01:45 AM   #74
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That's interesting, what's the difference? But anyway, you mean valve it as they do the factory NB Bilstiens?
NB HD, not NB OE, but with more rebound and bump to handle your higher spring rates.
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Old 08-07-2008, 07:14 AM   #75
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I'm at 12.75" Front and 13" Rear with 36mm FCM bumpstops. Haven't checked my travel with zip ties yet.
Zip ties?

ANyway, I hate that way of determining ride heights. Mostly what matters is if your control arms are parallel to the ground. I set mine so they are, giving me the best action of the wheels. But the measurement it harder to make...

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NB HD, not NB OE, but with more rebound and bump to handle your higher spring rates.
Awesome, gives me something to shoot for - I think that decides it for me, ordering bilstiens
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Old 08-07-2008, 12:13 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbeFM View Post
Do you have trouble being on the other side of things, a bit of understeery if you lift?

Anyway, the spring ratio is over simplifying, front roll couple is more invovled, and invovles ride height and sway choice. Meh.

Anyway, we'll see. Since I have 9 rear sway choices, and 4 front sway options, so it's not like there isn't a little room there. :-)
I tend to be more oversteery when I lift, and more flat under partial throttle...full throttle...well you know how that goes.
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Old 08-07-2008, 12:42 PM   #77
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what car is understeery when you lift? if it doesn't dive in or get loose when you lift, it probably wont turn at all when you're on power
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Old 08-07-2008, 01:31 PM   #78
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If you're going to post stupid stuff that doesn't make sense on the internet at 3 in the morning when you're drunk, do it on MT.net, not to ex girlfriends. :-P I'm not sure I'm in any better shape right now, either.
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