FIC (Fuel Injector Clinic) vs Injector Dynamics
#22
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You use that data with the AEM how?
My Deautschwerks ~650cc EV14's came with the battery volt offset curve that I typed into my series 1 AEM EMS. Idles fine obviously. They cam with another graph too but I forget what that showed.
EDIT: I see this basic info is now available on their website.
The tips of my injectors look a little scary. Like someone 'machined' them with a dull tool. I have not been able to find a good google picture of the end of a EV14 nozzle to see if it's like that from Bosch or was done in the process of making it higher flow.
My Deautschwerks ~650cc EV14's came with the battery volt offset curve that I typed into my series 1 AEM EMS. Idles fine obviously. They cam with another graph too but I forget what that showed.
EDIT: I see this basic info is now available on their website.
The tips of my injectors look a little scary. Like someone 'machined' them with a dull tool. I have not been able to find a good google picture of the end of a EV14 nozzle to see if it's like that from Bosch or was done in the process of making it higher flow.
#27
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It's not for the AEM - it's for the sake of comparison. Low-DC matching and linearity is what makes a big injector idle and drive correctly, which is why I prefer the IDs. I couldn't find any info on these topics on the FIC site, but I may have overlooked it.
#29
Yeah, ID absolutely matches them closer to FIC Sav - but I don't know how many people on here are good enough to have a pair matched 0.25% or 0.50% closer make a difference.
I'm still at the stage where I'm going "ERMAHGERDZ, AUTOTUNE!", and "How the **** do I tune idle?!?!?" let alone "Holy crap, these injectors matched 0.25% more closely at low-DC at 285cc make it so much easier to tune!"
#32
It's not the 0.25% or 0.5% flow rate at 80% duty cycle that makes the difference between injectors.
It's the matching of the DEAD TIME at flow rates for idle.
Say at idle you need 500 us fuel flow time. Let's pretend dead time is 1.0 ms. So the correct PW at idle is 1.5 ms.
A 10% error in dead-time (1.0 to 1.1 ms), is a 20% error in fueling (i.e. 400 us to 500 us).
It gets worse with very large injectors. e.g. 300 us of fuel flow, 100 us error is 33%(!). That's 14.7:1 from one injector, and 10:1 from the other!
One thing I've never seen spec'd, is the "flyback voltage" of the injector driver used to generate the low flow duty cycle curves. Though AFAIK most are 55-60V, in most ECUs, this will change the dead-time.
Another I haven't seen is the low-duty-cycle dead-time curve at high vs low temperature - e.g. at 0*C, vs. 100*C. The dead-time tends to increase at high temperature - a big change produces problematic idle if tuned for one and run at another temperature. One could put some correction in ECU software, based on CLT....
It's the matching of the DEAD TIME at flow rates for idle.
Say at idle you need 500 us fuel flow time. Let's pretend dead time is 1.0 ms. So the correct PW at idle is 1.5 ms.
A 10% error in dead-time (1.0 to 1.1 ms), is a 20% error in fueling (i.e. 400 us to 500 us).
It gets worse with very large injectors. e.g. 300 us of fuel flow, 100 us error is 33%(!). That's 14.7:1 from one injector, and 10:1 from the other!
One thing I've never seen spec'd, is the "flyback voltage" of the injector driver used to generate the low flow duty cycle curves. Though AFAIK most are 55-60V, in most ECUs, this will change the dead-time.
Another I haven't seen is the low-duty-cycle dead-time curve at high vs low temperature - e.g. at 0*C, vs. 100*C. The dead-time tends to increase at high temperature - a big change produces problematic idle if tuned for one and run at another temperature. One could put some correction in ECU software, based on CLT....
#33
Fuel Injector Clinic has some of the best customer service I have dealt with.
Before becoming a vendor for FIC I purchased a few injector sets direct as a customer, and I am pleased to say the customer service didn't change.
FIC has always been quick to respond via email, and always answer the phone. To this day all my orders with FIC are sent out same day, this only benefits you guys as a customer.
Seeing as the the employees at FIC are human, they have made ONLY ONE mistake with me and ironically it was on my personal car. They sent me a size that was larger than what I ordered. This was a zero hassle issue I called them up and they sent me my set and a return prepaid envelope.
I have had the pleasure to use both of the larger sets of injectors form ID and Fuel Injector clinic (ID2000cc/FIC2150cc) On customers cars.
Both injectors where fantastic. From idle to WOT its a continuous smooth feeling all the way to redline. The ev14 style injector are very easy to tune.
I have am currently using the fuel injector clinic 2150cc in my car now. (tuning soon)
You cannot beat the customer service, unbeatable price and, inexpensive plug and play option.
We are a fan of selling what we would use in our own cars, and Fuel injector clinic has won our heart.
I hope this was helpful. A lot of people misjudge the benefits of high quality customer service until its to late.
NOTE: We carry Fuel injector clinic, ID injectors, DW injectors, PTE injectors as well as RC.
Before becoming a vendor for FIC I purchased a few injector sets direct as a customer, and I am pleased to say the customer service didn't change.
FIC has always been quick to respond via email, and always answer the phone. To this day all my orders with FIC are sent out same day, this only benefits you guys as a customer.
Seeing as the the employees at FIC are human, they have made ONLY ONE mistake with me and ironically it was on my personal car. They sent me a size that was larger than what I ordered. This was a zero hassle issue I called them up and they sent me my set and a return prepaid envelope.
I have had the pleasure to use both of the larger sets of injectors form ID and Fuel Injector clinic (ID2000cc/FIC2150cc) On customers cars.
Both injectors where fantastic. From idle to WOT its a continuous smooth feeling all the way to redline. The ev14 style injector are very easy to tune.
I have am currently using the fuel injector clinic 2150cc in my car now. (tuning soon)
You cannot beat the customer service, unbeatable price and, inexpensive plug and play option.
We are a fan of selling what we would use in our own cars, and Fuel injector clinic has won our heart.
I hope this was helpful. A lot of people misjudge the benefits of high quality customer service until its to late.
NOTE: We carry Fuel injector clinic, ID injectors, DW injectors, PTE injectors as well as RC.
Last edited by DoapParts; 03-12-2013 at 02:41 PM.
#34
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The Same as Injector Dynamics But Cheaper
Interesting article from ID on FIC's data. The FIC users should probably read it.
I'll stick with my IDs. The new ID1300s should let me break 500whp on E85 later this year with a single-pump fuel system
Interesting article from ID on FIC's data. The FIC users should probably read it.
I'll stick with my IDs. The new ID1300s should let me break 500whp on E85 later this year with a single-pump fuel system
#35
#36
The Same as Injector Dynamics But Cheaper
Interesting article from ID on FIC's data. The FIC users should probably read it.
I'll stick with my IDs. The new ID1300s should let me break 500whp on E85 later this year with a single-pump fuel system
Interesting article from ID on FIC's data. The FIC users should probably read it.
I'll stick with my IDs. The new ID1300s should let me break 500whp on E85 later this year with a single-pump fuel system
"FIC" is commonly used as an abbreviation for both:
Fuel injector connection
&
Fuel Injector clinic.
The link that you shared was in reference to FUEL INJECTOR CONNECTION (FIC) not FUEL INJECTOR CLINIC.
http://www.fuelinjectorconnection.com/
There is no real comparison. Fuel Injection CLINIC is my number one choice for both value and quality. All data comes from IN HOUSE developing and testing.
http://fuelinjectorclinic.com/
-Brandon
#37
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Interestingly independent test data published on the ID website shows that random stock unmodified ev-14 injectors are the best performing in terms of low pulse width errors. http://www.injectordynamics.com/WhosGettingDrilled.pdf (page5)
We know EV14s are the ****. If there was a drop-in Bosch/Volkswagen PN for 600-900-1200cc injector you know we'd all be running them. The point is that Bosch didn't bless us with big *** EV14s so we have to get modified ones. Modified things generally do not work as the manufacturer intended. I think the real questions thus become: Who is doing the best job modifying things? Who is doing the best job of matching? Who is doing the best job providing accurate data?
Or am I missing something?
The Same as Injector Dynamics But Cheaper
Interesting article from ID on FIC's data. The FIC users should probably read it.
Interesting article from ID on FIC's data. The FIC users should probably read it.
Edit: Ok, Fuel Injector CLINIC -vs- Fuel Injector CONNECTION. I get it! Feel better already
Last edited by EO2K; 03-12-2013 at 04:51 PM.
#38
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What it really comes down to is injector variation. I'm not going to run EGT or AFR on each cylinder to assure even ratios on each cylinder, I'm going to pay extra in injector to do that for me.
/thread
/thread
#39
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There is no real comparison. Fuel Injection CLINIC is my number one choice for both value and quality. All data comes from IN HOUSE developing and testing.
Fuel Injector Clinic
-Brandon
Fuel Injector Clinic
-Brandon
#40
As stated above we have used Both ID injectors and Fuel injector clinic injectors many times. In both personal an customer cars.
We don't offer injector testing or developing, nor have we ever claimed to.
The topic of the tread is "FIC (Fuel Injector Clinic) vs Injector Dynamics"
I was clarifying that there is a difference between Fuel injector clinic and fuel injector connection. This way the members of the forum can be better educated.
We don't offer injector testing or developing, nor have we ever claimed to.
The topic of the tread is "FIC (Fuel Injector Clinic) vs Injector Dynamics"
I was clarifying that there is a difference between Fuel injector clinic and fuel injector connection. This way the members of the forum can be better educated.