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Old 05-19-2015, 09:56 AM   #1081
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I wish my FXT got 23mpg...
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Old 05-19-2015, 10:05 AM   #1082
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It doesn't? That's kinda weird.

And as for tuning, sure you can try it as long as:
1) you're completely fine with replacing the engine if something goes wrong
2) you're completely fine spending well over $1,000 in gas money while taking tiny steps and learning

I mean I guess you could get a base map and "make sure it doesn't blow up" and call that a tune, but if you really want to learn the ins and outs, it's gonna cost.
There's a HUGE difference between paying someone to tune your car and learning to do it yourself. I say with 100% confidence that if I wasn't absolutely in love with tinkering/tuning cars ( literally never had a single other hobby, it's all I've ever done for "fun" in life ), I'd not even consider doing it. Paying 250-450 is a drop in the bucket compared to the time and effort and gas money involved with learning this junk yourself.

Tell you what, come over to Sac and I will walk you through everything that I'm doing

Last edited by 18psi; 05-19-2015 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 05-19-2015, 10:12 AM   #1083
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As long as we're talking tuning I have a question. I currently have a Cobb AP with an ots stage 2 program. Once I add the vf39 and larger injectors should I just stick with the AP platform when I get a custom tune?
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Old 05-19-2015, 10:19 AM   #1084
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Sure, why not. AP2 is just as capable as OS, and AP3 is even more so.

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Old 05-19-2015, 11:42 AM   #1085
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So is it a lot harder than tuning megasquirt?
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Old 05-19-2015, 11:53 AM   #1086
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Its just so different. The two can't even be compared, way too different.
On the OEM ecu's you've got a really solid base, all the sensors are configured, everything is calibrated, so that part is awesome. The part that sucks is that you're working around the OEM ecu logic, and a lot of the stuff is REALLY overcomplicated. Alomst everything affects almost everything else. Like the throttle body "mapping" affects boost targets, and mass airflow voltage scale directly affects the afr's more so than the actual fuel maps, to name a couple. There are different spark maps for when the tgv's (basically vtcs) are open, and different maps for when they're closed, there are dynamic advance multipliers, there are all sorts of smog crap, there are all sorts of weird tables that don't make sense to the regular joe, etc etc etc.

Megasquirt you're starting with an empty ecu. You have to configure, calibrate, set up everything. That part sucks, really bad. But after all the little details are squared away, when you finally start tuning for power, it's like the most simple and basic setup known to mankind, so in that regard it's awesome. Everything is direct, there are not hundreds of little trims and gizmos, at least for the most part. Dial in fuel, done, dial in spark, done, enjoy.
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Old 05-19-2015, 11:57 AM   #1087
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makes sense. so somebody with a lot of experience can do some really awesome things with the OEM ecu, but the learning curve is even steeper than megasquirt?
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Old 05-19-2015, 12:01 PM   #1088
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I don't think it's steeper, it's just different. You have to be way more conscious of the various settings all affecting one another. And the ecu "learns" things so you have to account for that too. Anyone can hack together a "t00n" and then claim on the forums that they are a tuning legend.

Heck, even FaeFae tuned his FXT and said it was easy peazy. Then it blew up months later and I.....was.....not......surprised. There's a reason some of the big guys in the industry charge insane prices for tuning. I've seen their tunes and compared them, and was genuinely impressed (and of course learn from them all the time )
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Old 05-19-2015, 01:11 PM   #1089
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Quote:
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Tell you what, come over to Sac and I will walk you through everything that I'm doing
Memorial day tuning party at 18psi's house? I'll bring beer and pork!
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Old 05-19-2015, 01:25 PM   #1090
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I'd say its even shallower than starting with a standalone. I mean you start with a car that runs already. Subarus are had because the engines dont make sense, and 2.5s dont tolerate fuckups, like at all. The ecotec motors I learned to tune on were like, yeah you're knocking with like 12psi from a blower, could you like cut that out like some point in the next couple thousand miles? kthanks. And you think the subaru ecus can be a pain to tune on? How about a car that does fuel with alpha-n and spark with VE. Tell me thats not flustrating as ****.

At least the older 32bit subarus arent too too bad. The spark control scheme is kind of confusing but the E-throttle is pretty easy to setup properly and make it do things that make sense. Boost control seems weird coming from a standalone but its not bad. Maf scaling for a new intake was kind of scary, but at this point practically every off the shelf intake has a maf scaling table posted on RR forums, and that'll at least get you close.

Gas mileage wise I do 26 on the highway with the wagon and 20-23 mixed driving. Pretty sure that would be better with any turbo with a larger hot side.
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Old 05-19-2015, 01:32 PM   #1091
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What about when you start with a car that doesn't run? Have you scaled PE850 injectors before? Or some really big side-feeds? What about a big maf? What about blow-through? Have you ever run out of mass airflow resolution on a 16bit ecu?

I mean I guess we'd need to qualify what we're talking about here specifically, if it's a downpipe+exhaust wrx, I'd probably consider that easy too.

And yes, agreed on the room for error vs other cars: a 4g63 will be like "ay0 bro, I'm gonna keep making 400whp and let you finish, but if you wanna go ahead and try to reduce these 14 counts of knock at 25psi, I'm gonna be real happy about that, kthxbi "............A subaru EJ will be like "oh you farted while driving? I'm gonna blow up now, kthx"

lol

I like tuning evo8's: want power? more boost. want torque? moar boost. want drivability? MOAR BOOST. switching to e85? MOARRRRR BOOOST. bored? MOAR BOOST

-"nice evo, what's done to it?"
-"oh just your typical bolt ons and 500psi"

-"I've a weird sound coming from my transmission"
-"just turn the boost up"

Last edited by 18psi; 05-19-2015 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 05-19-2015, 11:40 PM   #1092
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oh boy...
I'm not actually gonna do it I had a shop put a tune on my car. Mostly just curiosity. Besides after reading what you posted up there I'm way too lazy for that learning curve
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Old 05-20-2015, 10:22 AM   #1093
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I learned enough to get the drivability i wanted.

i need to retune my dbw maps a bit to reduce the sensitivity i added that ultimately was a result of exhaust and boost leaks. but im so lazy.
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Old 05-20-2015, 10:33 AM   #1094
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exhaust and boost leaks just add character.
besides, if you fix you won't have anything to complain about.
this is unacceptable
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Old 05-20-2015, 11:07 AM   #1095
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pretty much fixed everything but a rattle between the cluster and center dash, and like 50 lbs of sound damping and like paint that doesnt chip when you sneeze.
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Old 05-20-2015, 12:14 PM   #1096
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OK pukes, I am considering buying an 08-13 Forester 2.5XT. I need a wagony vehicle with folding back seats good for hauling crap, reasonably fun to drive, comfy enough for long drives. Automatic. Trubo and tuneable is a big plus. And the big glass area too. The biggest minus may be the 4-speed auto. Seems jurassic to only have 4 speeds.

I've thought of the Accord Crosstour (fugly, tiny rear window), Vulva V70R (too unreliable), BMW 535ix (too pricey), the Mazda5 (great except for the anemic 4-cyl), and the CX5/7 (heavy, too SUV-ish with the stupid tiny window look).

I was thinking of lowering the Forester to more normal heights by changing to wider, lower-profile tires (good for 0.5 inch), and maybe slightly lower, stiffer springs (STi springs?), and better shocks (WRX? aftermarket?), to make it more fun to drive and to look less SUV-ish. Maybe sway bars too.

My questions are:
- which submodel / packages should I look for?
- what should I look out for when shopping? pre-modded=bad? Any Achilles' heels?
- is my lowering plan sound?
- is the trubo powerband wide enough to make up for the auto having only 4 speeds?

P.S. I just learned the 2010 Outback has even more cargo space and 3.6L 5spd auto available. However reviewers say poor steering feel and forward vis. Anyone concur?

Last edited by JasonC SBB; 05-20-2015 at 12:37 PM.
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Old 05-20-2015, 12:19 PM   #1097
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I loved my 2008 Forester XT Sport. You can read my ramblings about it all over this forum. It was perfection.

Why do you want autotragic? Subaru slushboxes absolutely suck
I'd want an 04-05 XT, or ideally an 06-08 XT-Sport because it's awesome. the 09+ is way heavier and not as fun, and autotragic only. many mildly modded ones are done very tastefully so that's not a definitive no-no, but you'd really need to do your homework and inspect it carefully. Not really, some experience headgasket issues, but that's more with the non-turbo models. Every other "achilles heel" is same as wrx's: piston ringlands, etc. I've had both a full Sti suspension on mine and full wrx suspension. sti was better for hard driving, wrx was WAY better for daily driving. Both lowered it a very significant amount, like 2-2.5 inches.

I could go on and on and on, but I'd rather just answer specific questions so post them up.
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Old 05-20-2015, 01:13 PM   #1098
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Isnt the 09+ forester more of an SUV and the older ones more of a lifted wagon. I've seen some 09+ forester XT's at auto-xs and can only think to myself, wow they need to update the appendix A listing because thats an SUV not a wagon.
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Old 05-20-2015, 01:55 PM   #1099
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Autotragic because wife.

Do the 06-08 XT's have the same cargo space as the 09-13?
Are they significantly noisier on the freeway? More NVH?
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Old 05-20-2015, 01:59 PM   #1100
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probably a bit noisier, and I doubt they have less space, there is a very generous "trunk" on those things. put the seats down and you can haul about as much stuff as a small truck.

and seriously, subaru auto's suck so much
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