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Old 07-25-2013, 11:54 AM   #121
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It is a perfectly legal cage. Basically it is a modified version of a Spec Miata cage with much of the extra gusseting and tubing not required stripped out for weight reduction. I also moved the door bars inside just enough so my slider windows will still function. There are the same number of bends as any spec cage that pushes the bars closer to the door skin.

Ironically, it is not an NHRA legal cage which most here would think that I would have installed. You see, I am secretly going in more of a road race configuration, because I know that is what I will eventually do with the car. The cage meets all specs for my weight and use per NASA's rulebook.

If I somehow decide to build a really fast road race car, I will put any tubing and bracing required to get the job done. Right now, I do not need all that.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:58 AM   #122
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And, for what it's worth, I don't know anything about building cages, but BSI Racing has been building SCCA road race cars for years and years so I imagine they've got a handle on it.
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Old 07-26-2013, 11:34 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shlammed View Post
Nice cage.

I cant see that cage fitting into any kind of cert rulebook though.

The door bars have too many bends in them for it to be very structural, but thats ok your down bars will just bend in being that you dont have a structural dash bar anyways.
So every roll cage that has bends in the door bars to help get them away from the occupants arms don't meet any sanctioning bodies rules? Man you better go tell that to pretty much every single Miata with a roll cage in it. So I guess mine is illegal too

Cage looks boss Troy. Are you going to paint it black or go with some color?
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Old 07-26-2013, 02:56 PM   #124
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So every roll cage that has bends in the door bars to help get them away from the occupants arms don't meet any sanctioning bodies rules? Man you better go tell that to pretty much every single Miata with a roll cage in it. So I guess mine is illegal too

Cage looks boss Troy. Are you going to paint it black or go with some color?
did not say that.

there are few standard designs for door bars. none of which look like a plate of spaghetti.

the reason nacar bars are fine with multiple bends is that they are braced in other axis. this x door bar/nascar door bar hybrid is going to fail at the bends because they arent tied to anything.

like I said earlier though, the dash bar that is ~0.045 wall is going to bend much earlier than the door bar so its not a limiting factor anyways
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Old 07-26-2013, 05:40 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shlammed View Post
did not say that.

there are few standard designs for door bars. none of which look like a plate of spaghetti.

the reason nacar bars are fine with multiple bends is that they are braced in other axis. this x door bar/nascar door bar hybrid is going to fail at the bends because they arent tied to anything.

like I said earlier though, the dash bar that is ~0.045 wall is going to bend much earlier than the door bar so its not a limiting factor anyways
You should take a look at the NASA rule book. There is no mention that the two door bars have to be in a straight line (X bars count as two bars). If a bar is required to have no bends, it is clearly stated in the rules. As far as bends, the rules state that bends can't have a radius of less than three times the diameter of the bar.

Also, a dash bar is considered optional. There are other optional bars like floor bars that are often tied to the door bars, and the diagonal bar that goes between the main hoop brace bars.

I have a few optional bars. The X you see in the back with the BSI gusset, as well as an additional door bar on the passenger side. The rules require only one passenger side door bar.
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Old 07-26-2013, 07:34 PM   #126
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Cage looks boss Troy. Are you going to paint it black or go with some color?
I am not sure yet. Most people tell me to paint it a light color, but I really want it to be flat black.

It comes down to whether I do a gutted interior and no carpet, or a full on race car interior.
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Old 07-28-2013, 10:21 PM   #127
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I spent a little time sanding on the car today. I also pretty much removed everything I could think of that I do not want overspray on. It looks like there is a little more body work to do, but I am to the point that I need to protect the exposed metal that is now everywhere. It is starting to get urgent.

I think the best way to proceed is to have the car primered right away, then I can continue to do some of the fine tuning on the chassis. At least I think that is the best way to go. I am going to take the car to a few body shops to get quotes, and get some input on what is the best way to tackle this. Hopefully I got enough prep done that it will not cost me an arm and leg.

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Old 07-29-2013, 10:11 AM   #128
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Since I keep seeing the thread title, I finally decided to go back and read the first post in this thread.

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Originally Posted by miata2fast View Post
That is my goal. I have been wanting to do this for quite some time, and I think that I have enough experience now that I can pull it off.

Apparently, there are already Miatas that have gone in the 11s on the (BP) motor according to Rebello Racing. I was hoping to be the first to do it, but that is not to be.

Some of the car has already been prepped to meet this goal. The fuel system is already adequete to go in the nines easily, and most of the weight reduction has been completed. All of the wiring is completed to run the nitrous. My ignition can handle it. I did some pretty extensive work on the cylinder head, and all I need to do now is camshaft development.

I am going to pull my motor, and put in rods, oil pump, balancer, and a few other items. I do not think that I will get the job done with this motor even with some of the improvements, but we will see. I still plan to use this motor as the development motor, and then build my spare motor from scratch once I feel the chassis, fuel system, saftey items, cylinder head and induction are up to speed. Oh yah. I plan to do a transmission of some sort, but I have not nailed it yet. I am leaning towards the Quaife 5 speed. I intend to run the numbers with the IRS suspension.

As of right now, I decided to park the car. I am getting some parts together, so the car will not be in pieces for too long. Do not expect for this to happen over night. At least a year.
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Old 07-30-2013, 12:22 AM   #129
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What is ironic about that first post is that I had been thinking it was possible well before I started the thread. I started to consult with Dave Rebello about this project, and he was the one that told me that a he knew of an Unlimited BP powered Miata road race car that had run in the 11's. I thought if they can do it then I can do it. After the conversation with him it gave me the confidence to go for it and start the thread.

Well, when I talked to him later (during the time I had the head ported) we got to talking about my goals again. I told him that I wanted to run 11's and he said, "Hold on a second, I want to talk to my son about this".

When he returned to the line, he said that it will be impossible for a Miata to go that fast. So basically he forgot about his full of **** statement he made months before. I was not happy to say the least.

When all is said and done and with the parts that are available today, I still think it is possible. I am going to give it one hell of a try anyways.
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Old 07-30-2013, 12:32 AM   #130
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Kind of scary. I don't like the lack of a structural dash bar or the downsized rear X. No idea why there's a useless extra bar between the rear X and the main hoop cross-brace. The basics are there, but the devil is in the details.
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Old 07-30-2013, 12:43 AM   #131
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The duties my car will be performing is nowhere near as risky as wheel to wheel racing. To meet my goals, I have to keep the weight down. For the N/A portion of my goal, I don't even need a halo.

I would not have put that bar between the X and harness bar, but I think it is far from useless. I would rather it be gone purely for the weight factor.

Last edited by miata2fast; 08-07-2013 at 08:24 PM.
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Old 08-11-2013, 01:57 PM   #132
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I decided to paint the car myself.

I went out and bought a few things to make this happen, most importantly I decided to upgrade my air compressor hose outlets and installed this much better air filter/water separator.



Already sanded and did an initial dtm primer coat on the cage.



Today I am getting the crud off as much surface as I can. I hope to be shooting paint on some of these areas today.

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Old 08-11-2013, 02:01 PM   #133
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What color are you going with?
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Old 08-11-2013, 02:03 PM   #134
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I am going to take it back to black. Flat interior and gloss exterior and engine bay.

Last edited by miata2fast; 08-11-2013 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 08-11-2013, 08:47 PM   #135
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Yesterday's painting experience was pretty much a flop. I mixed up too much paint, and some ended up hardening in the mixing cup before I could use it, and I was not really prepared to use what I had mixed anyway. Also, the finish came out way too powdery.

Today went much better. I spent most of the day sanding, but was able to shoot a little paint. There were still some powdery areas that I will have to sand and shoot again, but it is all coming back to me. I think with a little more practice, I will have a pretty darn good finish.

Still tons of sanding to do.

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Old 08-11-2013, 11:22 PM   #136
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So you are sandy? I'm glad you are making progress.

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Old 08-12-2013, 11:12 AM   #137
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how long was the paint in the canister?

you should have the better part of a day that the paint will be workable and a week before a large liquid amount of it will harden solid.

Don't add extra activator beyond what the manufacturer design calls for, it never helps. Just get a faster reducer if you need it to go faster and you have the minimum temperatures to work it.
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Old 08-12-2013, 01:23 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shlammed View Post
how long was the paint in the canister?

you should have the better part of a day that the paint will be workable and a week before a large liquid amount of it will harden solid.

Don't add extra activator beyond what the manufacturer design calls for, it never helps. Just get a faster reducer if you need it to go faster and you have the minimum temperatures to work it.
The paint in the canister never hardened. I think it was due to the fact that it was moving around so much during the paint process. My problem was the paint in the mixing cup would not fit into the canister. The paint was in the cup for about a half hour that became unusable. I learned to mix a smaller amount.

I followed the strict instruction of mixing rates the supplier gave me. He was very helpful on how to do the process, but I guess I was not use to how long it takes to go through paint when painting very small surfaces like a roll cage. He warned me that it would harden quickly. The gun I was using was new, and I was not used to it having such a small canister.

If I was painting a large surface like on the second day, it would have been gone in less than 10 minutes. That paint was expensive too, and I now have to buy more.
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Old 08-12-2013, 01:56 PM   #139
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I learned from painting my car last month, always ask for a little more than what the paint shop guy/gal recommends on your first paint job. I ran out of primer twice (sealer and high build) so I ended up having to stop and going back for more. Good luck with sanding, its the worst part of the job.
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Old 08-25-2013, 06:43 PM   #140
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Troy has been busy.

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Last edited by sixshooter; 08-25-2013 at 10:29 PM.
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