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Old 11-27-2014, 03:35 PM   #241
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Torque is already limited to 280 for the 6-speed.

Hell, if he just flips on VICS it's an automatic 13 ft/lbs
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Old 11-27-2014, 03:37 PM   #242
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huh? he's got a 6 speed and limiting torque? why?
will this thing see a ton of track duty? I see no need for this unless car is going to be flogged on track repeatedly

*edit:

Blaen, this is probably directed more at you than curly.

Last edited by 18psi; 11-27-2014 at 04:03 PM.
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Old 11-27-2014, 03:57 PM   #243
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Customer got what the customer wanted, you'll have to ask him...
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Old 11-27-2014, 04:28 PM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
huh? he's got a 6 speed and limiting torque? why?
will this thing see a ton of track duty? I see no need for this unless car is going to be flogged on track repeatedly

*edit:

Blaen, this is probably directed more at you than curly.
Because I want to be able to flog it at the track if I want to.

Seriously, I would not have picked up the TSE 25-row oil cooler kit if that wasn't my intention. I would have gone with the 16-row or even stayed with my old kit.

(Edit) And as I think about it, injectors too. There's only 650cc in it right now - and they hit 90% DC in this run from what I understand.
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Old 11-27-2014, 05:18 PM   #245
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Very brief rich spike. Closer to a 85% average, but yeah, 350 max with these injectors, and were pretty much there.
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Old 11-28-2014, 12:00 AM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrodann View Post
Why do the ports with a valve on the end of them flow better than the inlet manifold runners?

What am I misunderstanding?

Dann
The inlet ports without a valve on the end of them, on the unmodified VICS manifold, that direct flow through a helmholtz chamber, do significantly better then the intlet ports that do have a valve, and that use the helmholtz chamber as an intake.

Frankly, I'm not surprised at the results - I told Curly up front that I seriously doubted there would be any gains. My surprise, however, is how drastic the losses are - close to a 10% difference in the advantage of the unmodified VICS.

From the RX7 world, I know it's hard to improve on Mazda manifolds. While it's possible to design a good long/short runner setup (Check out the 89-91 NA rx7 manifolds), looking at the psuedo-gutted design, it's pretty obvious it's going to run into problems with how it will direct air. Frankly, I seriously doubt us enthusiasts can meaningfully improve on OEM Mazda intake manifolds due to previous experience with them.
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Old 11-28-2014, 12:50 AM   #247
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From what the tuner said, he either suspects it's giving crazy resonance with the extra volume, or it's just simply killing volumetric efficiency. Or those are the same thing, and everything the tuner was saying was going over my head. That's a strong possibility too.
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Old 11-28-2014, 02:30 PM   #248
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sorry to hop in the thread and jack the **** out of it.

but, did you say VICS and 13 ft/lb right there? So just gutting it and have immediate gains?
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Old 11-28-2014, 02:37 PM   #249
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Gutted upper manifold was a 30hp loss above 5500rpm.

We set VICs to open at 1000 and then 8000 to see where they cross. It was still 5500 as every other dyno thread in the past has shown, that's what Mazda tuned the manifold for.

With his current tune, if he activated VICs at 5500, he'd gain 13ft/lbs, but that's over his limit of 280, so we left it "deactivated".

We could have activated it and turned down the boost, but my tuner has the experience, and he said it wouldn't of been a good idea to limit the turbo right when it's trying to spool up.
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Old 11-28-2014, 02:48 PM   #250
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interesting, thanks for clearing that up curly.
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Old 11-28-2014, 02:49 PM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaen99 View Post

I'll talk to him on his suggestions then...
tubular exhaust manifold with a real collector and a proper intake manifold.

I know where you can get them too.
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Old 11-28-2014, 11:58 PM   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaen99 View Post
Frankly, I seriously doubt us enthusiasts can meaningfully improve on OEM Mazda intake manifolds due to previous experience with them.
lol wut?

https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-pe...e7/#post632316
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Old 11-29-2014, 01:08 AM   #253
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I think he means by modifying oem manifolds. Technically you're not modifying with the above, you're just making a pre-made manifold fit.
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Old 11-29-2014, 01:43 AM   #254
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^This.

Sav,, I think it was pretty obvious that I was specific to modified Mazda manifolds in the post...come on mang. Of course there's tons of better manifolds, but I find it seriously doubtful we end up gutting our way to an improved stock manifold.
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Old 11-29-2014, 03:08 AM   #255
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Ah. Yes, I misread/misunderstood.

There are definitely improvements to be had on stock manifolds if you know what you're doing. Hand one to Jesse Prather along with a check for about $2000 and you'll get quite a gem of a USDM manifold back.
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Old 11-29-2014, 07:48 AM   #256
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Lol. And an amazing :coughcough: "stock" cylinder head.
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Old 11-29-2014, 10:04 AM   #257
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I'm guessing some simple port matching wouldn't hurt, but that gets into head work as well.

If a CNC head really is in your future, I'd probably suggest having emilio port a square top and install the two together. This would all seem a little silly without sometime like the Hellafab manifold mentioned earlier.

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Old 11-29-2014, 11:38 AM   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Ah. Yes, I misread/misunderstood.

There are definitely improvements to be had on stock manifolds if you know what you're doing. Hand one to Jesse Prather along with a check for about $2000 and you'll get quite a gem of a USDM manifold back.
Granted, but Jesse Prather isn't exactly one of us randomly gutting the manifold with no real knowledge about what he's doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
I'm guessing some simple port matching wouldn't hurt, but that gets into head work as well.

If a CNC head really is in your future, I'd probably suggest having emilio port a square top and install the two together. This would all seem a little silly without sometime like the Hellafab manifold mentioned earlier.
Let's just say what I'm considering for the future might be a bit of a surprise for this forum.

We'll talk RL, as I have no interest in going into potential Faefae or nitrodann territory on the forums.
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Old 12-01-2014, 01:18 AM   #259
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So,

Overall impressions: I know why 18psi said a 400rwhp miata made him paranoid.


Curly did a very good job on cleaning up stuff, and surpassed all of my expectations quite frankly.

And now, I'm going to bed. 'Cause Seattle drivers are difficult to explain just how bad they are, and after a few hours of driving with them, I'm done.
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Old 12-01-2014, 12:26 PM   #260
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So, now that I'm not wiped out by Seattle drivers on the Sunday after thanksgiving (Bay Area drivers at least made logical decisions when I was down there.....Not so much the Seattle ones)

First off, 350rwhp may be a bit much for something I drive daily. Fortunately, it's not my long-term plan for this to be a DD - I was in the process of buying a new car, the Evo X included. The Evo X is probably out of my list now. Actually, right now I'm a giant quivering wuss from having to drive home in that traffic in that, so for the next week, anything over 120rwhp is probably off the list. That'll likely change in a month or two, but my DD horsepower desires are definitely much lower in this traffic/area then they were after driving this Miata.

Secondly, I think the Skunk2 throttle body seems to require much finer modulation than the stock Miata throttle body. It's definitely going to take some getting used to. I don't know if I'd recommend it on a DD now - I picked it up so that people wouldn't go "But the throttle body is the restriction!!!!!!" in the back to back tests of psuedo-gutted vs non-gutted manifolds.

Thirdly, I now officially spin tires in 3rd at 4k, and found out I can spin it in 4th if I REALLY want to on the way home (Could have been roads, dunno, I really wanted to get by a Audi that was being an *******). That's just wrong on every level.

Fourth and finally? I think I'm done with looking for more power. I'll probably be looking to improve spool, but I think Curly was right - 350rwhp is a real kick in the pants.
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