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Old 05-31-2016, 01:18 AM   #81
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well, it's running, right?
so it did it's job. the rest of 99% tuning will still need to be done.
All we're saying is you guys are putting way too much faith in these "base maps". Some people start and drive immediately, but that's not true across the board. its still an untuned full standalone
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Old 05-31-2016, 08:17 AM   #82
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Did either of you verify your spark timing with a timing light yet? I'm betting not.

Some cars run better than others on a base map because some are closer to the condition of the car the base map originated from. All require tuning. I worry about the ones where the base map runs "well enough" right away because the noob owners never bother to tune it completely. Time bomb.
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Old 05-31-2016, 12:00 PM   #83
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well, it's running, right?
so it did it's job. the rest of 99% tuning will still need to be done.
All we're saying is you guys are putting way too much faith in these "base maps". Some people start and drive immediately, but that's not true across the board. its still an untuned full standalone
I mean... it coughs to life for a half second like a dying smoker, so if you consider that "running" then sure.

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Did either of you verify your spark timing with a timing light yet? I'm betting not.
Doesn't the car kinda have to be running for more then 2 seconds to verify that? Or does checking it with the stock ECU count? Its never been advanced/retarded from the stock 10 degrees.
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Old 05-31-2016, 12:03 PM   #84
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I give up. Good luck
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Old 05-31-2016, 12:05 PM   #85
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My bad. That might have come off harsher then intended.

I'll need all the luck I can get though, so thanks.
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Old 05-31-2016, 12:07 PM   #86
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Did either of you verify your spark timing with a timing light yet? I'm betting not.

Some cars run better than others on a base map because some are closer to the condition of the car the base map originated from. All require tuning. I worry about the ones where the base map runs "well enough" right away because the noob owners never bother to tune it completely. Time bomb.
Fairnuff. Checked my timing before starting, it was close enough. Got it started and then used the angle offset or whatever that is called to make it match when set to static timing.

I was just expecting a bit closer than <10:1 afr (max my guage will read). If it were 11-12 or 16-17 I would just assume the tune was off. Being as rich as it was I was thinking it may have been a setting I missed somewhere.
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Old 05-31-2016, 12:14 PM   #87
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Fairnuff. Checked my timing before starting, it was close enough. Got it started and then used the angle offset or whatever that is called to make it match when set to static timing.

I was just expecting a bit closer than <10:1 afr (max my guage will read). If it were 11-12 or 16-17 I would just assume the tune was off. Being as rich as it was I was thinking it may have been a setting I missed somewhere.
Until the car hits 160 degrees you have a few things that could cause it to be rich. First is your warmup enrichments may be to high, so it is running rich, the second is the idle cells in the VE table are probably a bit to rich.

You can either change all the warm up enrichments to 100 across the board and let it warm up to above 160 and then work on tuning the idle cells. Or you can leave WUE alone and just pull some fuel out of the idle cells until you get it to a somewhat reasonable range for an idling AFR. Once you give above 160 you will probably have to mess with it again. Save the original tune off somewhere and then don't feel bad about playing around with fuel a bunch to get it closer to what you want.
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Old 05-31-2016, 12:14 PM   #88
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My bad. That might have come off harsher then intended.

I'll need all the luck I can get though, so thanks.
ok I'll be nice and give it one more shot:

if your car is dying and blowing smoke, its likely super rich. in which case hightlight a large group of VE table cells around idle area and start lowering them until you can maintain an idle that's not pouring fuel through the exhaust.

then sync timing per the instructions.

then start actually setting up your car, like doing idle test and setting idle valve stuff, tuning fuel, spark, warmup, startup, and the gajillion other things.

hope that helps

PS: you gotta actually put effort into it though. it's a steep learning curve, but it's not impossible. you can't just throw up your hands in the air when a base map doesn't run the car like OEM and "ask for help" when you're not even sure what's actually wrong or what you're even asking for.

that's like saying "hey doc, something hurts, can you tell me what disease I have?"
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Old 05-31-2016, 12:18 PM   #89
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Until the car hits 160 degrees you have a few things that could cause it to be rich. First is your warmup enrichments may be to high, so it is running rich, the second is the idle cells in the VE table are probably a bit to rich.

You can either change all the warm up enrichments to 100 across the board and let it warm up to above 160 and then work on tuning the idle cells. Or you can leave WUE alone and just pull some fuel out of the idle cells until you get it to a somewhat reasonable range for an idling AFR. Once you give above 160 you will probably have to mess with it again. Save the original tune off somewhere and then don't feel bad about playing around with fuel a bunch to get it closer to what you want.
I got it up to about 150f or so. WUE was down to 106% so it is just really far off. I will be playing with it when I get time over the next few days and will try scaling the idle cells a bit.
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Old 05-31-2016, 12:35 PM   #90
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I got it up to about 150f or so. WUE was down to 106% so it is just really far off. I will be playing with it when I get time over the next few days and will try scaling the idle cells a bit.
I would drop all the cells around the idle kpa/rpm by increments of 5 until it gets up into the high 13 range. Don't worry about getting a perfect 14.7afr idle right now. Anywhere in the 13.5-14.0afr range will be good enough to drive the car around, keep it running, and let you work on getting everything else worked on.
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Old 05-31-2016, 12:39 PM   #91
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I would drop all the cells around the idle kpa/rpm by increments of 5 until it gets up into the high 13 range. Don't worry about getting a perfect 14.7afr idle right now. Anywhere in the 13.5-14.0afr range will be good enough to drive the car around, keep it running, and let you work on getting everything else worked on.
That was the plan, although I was gonna take the ratio of 13.5/10 and just multiply the cells by that.
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Old 05-31-2016, 12:45 PM   #92
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Not sure if you guys are running flow force injectors or not but if you are here is a bone.
My stock 99 motor cranks around approximately 4ms pulsewidth cold and idles around 1.9 to 2.4ms depending on temperature. I don't need much WUE compared to my stock injectors.
Look at a log of your pulsewidth when trying to start.

Also I agree with what these guys are saying.
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Old 05-31-2016, 11:18 PM   #93
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Fixed mine. Take a look at your injector dead time settings. Mine looked good at first glance, but there was a setting jacking it up to 6ms from what I thought was set to 1.2ms....
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