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So something is broken, but I'm not sure what it is and could use some guidance for testing.
I swapped in some new iridium plugs 2 weeks ago and was trying a larger gap, but continued to get spark blowout. So I progressively gapped them smaller and smaller aiming to get rid of the blowout. Gapped them to the .030" my old plugs were on and went for a drive..
Car seemed to have spark blowout at light throttle (~10psi), but it sounded a little different, but usual muffled machine gun noises. I figured this was because it was at 3k rpms vs. the usual 5-6k. I went to check this again a mile down the street and the car did the same thing but something seemed very off. I lifted and the car was running very lean (~16-17) target 14.7. The car was very down on power and was running like ****. I pulled off immediately.
I do not have a log for when this happened.
I've tested in-line fuel pressure on the feed. With accessory on, it primes to 43psi and starts to drop immediately. At idle, it sits at 40. If I open the throttle a little while idling it will stay at 40, but the motor hesitates.
My first thought is that it is fuel related, but all seems fine so far. I hear a ticking in the exhaust only, nothing up front and knock sensor shows ok.
Did I blow something in the motor?
Note: Just swapped to e85 and have run a few tanks through. Only issue is spark blowout at 20-21psi
The repeated misfire could have squashed a crank or rod bearing, it’ll sound a bit like an exhaust leak, try checking your oil for sparkles, but best to send out a sample.
if it’s a referenced FPR, it’ll show 43 when priming, and less than that when idling. Stock regulators should hold pressure for hours, after market will often bleed off.
The repeated misfire could have squashed a crank or rod bearing, it’ll sound a bit like an exhaust leak, try checking your oil for sparkles, but best to send out a sample.
if it’s a referenced FPR, it’ll show 43 when priming, and less than that when idling. Stock regulators should hold pressure for hours, after market will often bleed off.
Thanks for the reply. It is the stock NA fpr, so the pressure seems right for priming and running, but it is not holding pressure for more than 10 minutes. I just picked up a DW300 and plan to order a Fuelab fpr to replace the stock. It's probably overkill but my current plan for e85 was to max out this 6258.
:( yeah I'm pretty bummed about it all. I'm still going to get the fuel related items. My only thought is maybe something with the fuel caused it to run super rich or lean. The AFR looked fine on the gauge, but don't have a log to prove it. It had some spark blowout at 0.32 and 20psi. I dont see how gapping down to 0.30 would make the issue worse.
I’m not sure why you’re at 20psi and .030”. I was under the impresssion Toyota COPs weren’t much better than stock, im running mine at .022-.025”, can go even lower. No issues at 18psi.
to be clear, I wouldn’t rule out other issues yet. What was your break in procedure? How many filter changes have you done/how many miles on the engine? If fuel pressure look good, how do your plugs look when idling? Is any one plug different indicating an injector (or coil) issue?
I’m not sure why you’re at 20psi and .030”. I was under the impresssion Toyota COPs weren’t much better than stock, im running mine at .022-.025”, can go even lower. No issues at 18psi.
to be clear, I wouldn’t rule out other issues yet. What was your break in procedure? How many filter changes have you done/how many miles on the engine? If fuel pressure look good, how do your plugs look when idling? Is any one plug different indicating an injector (or coil) issue?
The motor was tuned by Vlad for e10. We worked up to 20psi and I never had any blowout issues with 0.30" at 20psi. No hesitation or issues until going to e85.
break-in was high vacuum, low load. IIRC we got into tuning boost on wg pressure pretty early. I changed the oil after the first drive and again after 1k miles on the motor. First start and up to 1k were Amsoil 30w break in oil. After that it's been T6 and lately switched to Amsoil 10w-30. Oil has been changed every 500-1k miles, oem filters everytime. It's been changed so frequently because I've pulled the motor out twice. Once because the 5 speed died and the other to redo the pan seal. Motor has 4-5k on it.
Plugs have some white deposit (lean?). All about the same. Maybe a little more on cylinders 3 and 4. Are you saying that I should clean the plugs, idle, then remove and inspect?
I actually realized I was recording when it all happened. I'll post up the video but I'm actually getting hopeful that it's just a fuel delivery issue.
Just to be clear, I tuned this car on pump and it ran great. I did not do any tuning whatsoever for e85
Absolutely true! Vlad's tune was great and I have had no issues with it.
My issues resolve around my recent e85 adventures and me getting greedy with trying to push the car. This is my first build so I'm learning as much as I can along the way
oof hoping for as positive outcome as possible. I'm in a similar boat as you w/ my first built engine and standalone setup.
I found 93 to be extremely knock limiting on my 9:1 VVT 6258 head setup. Couldn't really push it passed 17psi(~275whp on virtual dyno) before it would start to knock.
My paranoia(and gas prices) got the best of me and now I pump ethanol through it almost all year besides the winter. Plus my stache of unbroken gearboxes has turned into a stache of broken gearboxes.
Finally some good news! Replaced the pump with a DW300, pressure holds now after the pumps kicks off. I assume a bad check valve in the old pump. When I pulled it, I blew into the feed side and was able to see some fuel dribbling out the other end.
Ran the car and still ran very rough and lean. Pulled the plugs and noticed #4 looked darker/wet. Hm. Looked inside each cylinder and sure enough #4 was wet.
Decided to check the ignition. Boom. #4 coil is dead. Going to order a few things and fingers crossed that nothing got seriously damaged.. Will also send the oil off to Blackstone. I compared this oil to some oil from the first few changes and they do look similar. The video posted makes it look worse than it is
Things to order:
Upgraded Ignition - LS or equivalent
New FPR for the DW300 - Probably go Fuelab Mini
Radium Fuel Rail
Things I need to install:
New master/slave
Wilwood brake proportioning valve
Turbosmart 2-port wastegate
oof hoping for as positive outcome as possible. I'm in a similar boat as you w/ my first built engine and standalone setup.
I found 93 to be extremely knock limiting on my 9:1 VVT 6258 head setup. Couldn't really push it passed 17psi(~275whp on virtual dyno) before it would start to knock.
My paranoia(and gas prices) got the best of me and now I pump ethanol through it almost all year besides the winter. Plus my stache of unbroken gearboxes has turned into a stache of broken gearboxes.
I must be lucky with my 93 setup then or my slightly lower compression helps. I've been able to get 20-21psi on 93 and my knock sensor stays happy. My ignition timing is also very conservative
Been through a 5speed pretty early on. This 6 speed has been going strong though
Motor is good! I sent the oil to Blackstone about 2 weeks ago and am still waiting for the analysis. It did look a little sparkly, but I'll let them be the judge.
Installed the LS coils, Fuelab mini (set base pressure to 43.5), Radium fuel rail, and dual port TurboSmart wastegate. I put the iridium plugs back in and gapped them down to .025, zero issues with spark blow out now. Had some fitment issues with the fuel rail pressing down on the front 2 injectors enough so they were leaking air when I boost leak tested. I 3D printed some shorter fuel rail spacers out of ABS to bring the rail closer to the injectors and it sealed up nicely. Here is a comparison between the stock ones and a printed one.
Tuning was going well until I tried to get into boost control with the new wastegate. Had some issues with plumbing it since the BorgWarner Pierburg style is different from many guides that use a MAC style 3-port. I've got it setup like the following picture but I'm getting really bad creep around 5k rpms. If I disconnect the lower canister connection the boost will stay right at wastegate spring pressure (14psi).
From my understanding the BorgWarner Pierburg style 3-port boost control solenoid is setup like the following picture. I even removed it from the turbo and tried blowing through each port in order to find out the flow path between each. Maybe I have this wrong, but I'm not sure what the issue is and why I'm going from 14psi to ~20psi around 5k rpms, even with 0% duty cycle/Boost control turned off
Just got the report back from Blackstone and they said that everything looks good to them. I'm happy to hear that because I was pretty worried after seeing the oil the way it was, but they are the experts, not me!
It's fine with all those flakes? Kind of surprised/impressed.
Originally Posted by curly
can you post the black stone results?
I think the video made it look worse than it actually was/is. The car drives great aside from not being able to control boost currently. Anyway, here is the report:
EDIT. I also just went back and watched my video. Those spots in the video are bubbles. The part to focus on are the ripples you can see when I blow on it
We've used a grinder and purposely added steel shavings to oil samples and they have tested negative for it a couple of times in the past, so I wouldn't put overwhelming faith in the testing.
I work for a heavy machinery dealership and we were trying to get a bad result so we could replace a component for a customer under warranty before it expired.
07-15-2022, 01:05 PM
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Going to order a few things and fingers crossed that nothing got seriously damaged.. Will also send the oil off to Blackstone. I compared this oil to some oil from the first few changes and they do look similar. The video posted makes it look worse than it is
I sent the oil to Blackstone about 2 weeks ago and am still waiting for the analysis. It did look a little sparkly, but I'll let them be the judge.
