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Old 01-30-2009, 10:36 PM   #61
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BEGi actually shipped my order promptly (1.8 manifold/3" SSSG) back in May 07 when I ordered the stuff. Doesn't change the fact they messed it up. The $30 I was charged for an EGT hole in the manifold that never got drilled/tapped is one thing, but my downpipe has been an absolute fiasco.

First of all, whoever is welding those things needs to install one of their own products on a Miata sometime, because it's clear and apparent they either have never done it, or they don't do it often enough.

-The pinchbolt holes they weld onto the DP are so close to the pipe itself that there's not enough room to get a bolt, a nut, AND a socket into place. I have finally figured out how to do it; it involves a pair of vise grips, a thin-wall 1/4" socket, a 1/4" universal joint, and the removal of the left front wheel. Spacing the two hoops out 1/8", and rotating them around the DP so they are actually visible from the wheel well would make the install about a thousand times easier.
-Let's not forget that it took BEGi forever and a week to figure out what angle to install wideband bungs at. I can't count the number of BEGi DPs I've seen with a wideband bung at the 7 o'clock angle, when Innovate specifically states that installing it at anything less than 3 or 9 o'clock will cause water damage to the sensor. If they do manage to get it up on top, whether it hits your floorboards or your tranny is a crapshoot. I had a friend sell his 1.6 setup and replace it with a brand-new 1.8 setup, and that was literally my biggest worry. They managed to get his 1.6 DP right, and I was worried they would screw up the 1.8 DP.
-When I ordered my DP, I was told I got a 3" DP. I was certainly charged for it. The ID of the pipe is 2.70". After adding wall thicknesses, it was within a few thousandths of 3", so I accepted that what BEGi called 3" wasn't really 3". (My Enthuza 3" exhaust is 3" ID, BTW.) I laid this to rest as my error until about a month ago when I ordered a test pipe from Jason to replace my catted midpipe. I called BEGi to ask what flange Jason should put on the DP side. I told them I had ordered a 3" DP, and asked what flange came on that (since Jason said it mattered.) Stephanie assured me over the phone that if I had a 3" DP, I had an oversized flange. I recieved the test pipe, and sure enough, the flange on my DP is not oversized, which leads me to believe I have a 2.75" DP after being charged an extra $70 IIRC for a 3" pipe. I had to cobble together some huge washers and tiny bolts to get the two to mate up.
-The EGR fitting on the manifold required me to bend my EGR tube, and once it was all connected up it hit the DP. I bent it away and now the EGR tube leaks at that fitting. I will have to deal with this the next time the manifold is off.

Once the BEGi parts are installed, they are fantastic. The DP is gorgeous, even if it is two bitches to install. The manifold is confidence-inspiring, since I know I never have to worry about breaking it. When I first broke the 8mm studs, Corky replaced the studs with 10mm for the cost of the hardware, which is a big bonus (although someone should have checked to make sure the hardware they sent actually fit into the space it was intended, since it didn't and I had to Dremel the exhaust housing and get smaller nuts).

At the end of the day, if you want reliability and power, BEGi is an excellent option. If you want perfection, or speed of delivery, look elsewhere.
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Old 01-31-2009, 01:40 PM   #62
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Stephanie, these are the emails that were forwarded to me showing me that the vendor did everything he could to resolve the long wait. The language on both sides seems to be professional without the hint of animosity. This looks like just a case of poor customer service.
Little do you know. Too bad I did not record the phone conversation where Todd DeHate called me a lying B**ch. Tell me, would you do business with him if he was calling you names? I certainly do not call that professional behavior on his part.

You must have missed where I said "verbally abusive". Putting up with that for four years? I would call that extreme patience/tolerance on my part. If you doubt the abrasiveness of Todd De Hate I suggest you call Corky, Mary, or even Gerhard Schruf. They can verify the type of person he truly is.

edit: Jim, I am sorry you got caught in the middle of what turned out to be a bad situation. It had nothing to do with poor customer service. Some people just do not know how to be nice. Had you called me directly, we could have resolved it to your benefit.
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Old 01-31-2009, 07:24 PM   #63
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Thanks for your replies, Stephanie. I thought of calling but I did not see anything in the emails that would have encouraged me to call, it looked as though the door was shut. I was new to the turbo process, the vendors involved, and couldn't get answers for the delays.
Being in customer service myself, I will not judge you or your business on this singular issue.
Thanks for your expression of regret that I got caught in the middle. This puts a close for me to this incident.

Jim

Last edited by driverdog; 01-31-2009 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 02-02-2009, 07:33 PM   #64
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Update - My DP was supposed to be done on Friday, shipped overnight and be there on Saturday. Well, Joe needed six hours to finish it on Friday, did not finish and was supposed to finish on Monday and send it out... Today, I email Stephanie... Joe did not finish it and 'it will be finished tomorrow for sure'. So, basically, Saturday turns into Wednesday... and the story goes on.... If he needed 6 hours on Friday, and got some hours on it on Friday, may be he needed a few more hours today (Monday) and should have been done and sent out TODAY... I just think my project is not a priority based on this. Despite all the delays... still not a priority to avoid more delays....!
Just to keep my self busy yesterday, I mounted the gauges and ran the wires in the A-Pillar. They look good, but slightly turned... at least they are turned in the same direction
Today, I may mount the LC-1 and run the wires to it from the gauge and run the signal to the boost gauge... and keep waiting

Last edited by 2002SilverMiata; 02-03-2009 at 03:14 PM. Reason: Picture Added
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Old 02-03-2009, 12:13 AM   #65
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My attachments (pictures) are above the limit. I want to resize the pictures I have already posted, but I cannot do that on the older posts on my thread. I found the album feature (a little late) but I cannot delete or replace the old post pictures so I can have more storage space... Can anyone help?? Thanks.
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Old 02-03-2009, 12:58 AM   #66
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:38 AM   #67
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Id still send all the **** back, you arent gonna get any of it any time soon.

Begi likes to pass the blame around, and I hate when companies place blame on their suppliers when they cant finish something. Why does the customer care again? oh, right they dont and shouldnt.

Joe should have stayed at work till he was done.
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Old 02-03-2009, 12:58 PM   #68
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I will explain the reason for the delay. But I think you missed the part where I said the downpipe was our fault. That is not passing the blame. As for what 2002silvermiata said yesterday, that is an explination, not blaming anyone.

There would have been no point to Joe staying until it was done. Period. It would not have gone yesterday or Friday if he had stayed. UPS picks up at 6 pm at the very latest. Post office closes at 4:30. So he finished the pipe at 8 pm. Can't do anything with it but let it sit there another day any way....

So, Joe underestimated the time to make the pipe. That does not mean this downpipe does not have priority. The downpipe is ALL he has worked on for 2 days straight now. The pipe bends turned out to be more complicated than the standard downpipe. Instead of welding in a bent tube or 90 elbow, he had to cut three of four sections of bent tubing and weld it together in 2 seperate places on the downpipe. It is time consuming and I refuse to jump all over his butt for not getting it done faster. I want it done right. If that takes longer, so be it. He is the best fabricator we have, besides Corky of coarse, and I trust him to do an good job. I will not rush him thru it to compromise quality.
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Old 02-03-2009, 01:11 PM   #69
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Id still send all the **** back, you arent gonna get any of it any time soon.
+1 Send that **** back.
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Old 02-03-2009, 01:56 PM   #70
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Wow....another one of these threads.

Hopefully you make the right decision and things turn out right in the end. I know if I spent the money on a S5 and it was 4 months later I would pack up everything I had and send it right the **** back. 4 months! I don't care how many emails, phone calls, or forum post apologies are made by the vendor, 4 months of waiting on a big money kit is disgusting.

On another note saying "well, that guy called me a bitch" kind of attitude is laughable, really. Being given the runaround on parts that customers are waiting for is inexcusable. Sometimes you just need to man up, shut up, and get the parts to the people that pay for them.

Sorry is just a word.....does nothing for me.

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Old 02-03-2009, 02:42 PM   #71
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I will explain the reason for the delay. But I think you missed the part where I said the downpipe was our fault. That is not passing the blame. As for what 2002silvermiata said yesterday, that is an explination, not blaming anyone.
You said it Tial sent you the wrong wastegate, you said someone else didnt send you the turbine housing?

Still. You should have at least one piece of every part you sell in the event you need to use it for something, so you can recreate what you sold. Doing it the way you are with asking customers to send back parts is bananas.

If you recall, you did the same thing with Chad Jernigan, what was the end result? OH YEA, he had to make his downpipe himself cause even after having all his stuff you couldnt get it right.

Quote:

There would have been no point to Joe staying until it was done. Period. It would not have gone yesterday or Friday if he had stayed. UPS picks up at 6 pm at the very latest. Post office closes at 4:30. So he finished the pipe at 8 pm. Can't do anything with it but let it sit there another day any way....

So, Joe underestimated the time to make the pipe. That does not mean this downpipe does not have priority. The downpipe is ALL he has worked on for 2 days straight now.
Then Joe should have came in on Saturday, and Sunday to finish it and send it on Monday morning first thing.

Its pretty simple. You gotta stand by your word. If he says its gonna be done, and you see that you are falling behind, the excuse shouldnt be "OH, you cant do anything except let it sit". You come in and finish it, instead of letting it drag into the middle of the week.

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He is the best fabricator we have, besides Corky of coarse, and I trust him to do an good job. I will not rush him thru it to compromise quality.
Stephanie
Needing to do something twice doesnt help his case.

I don't get why this is such a mission, you guys have to have jigs setup to make these pipes one after the other. I hope you arent measuring, cutting, and shaping every single pipe you make on a car in the shop.

-------

There is some serious problems going on. To me it seems when you were smaller it was easier to keep things in check, now you are doing more business but running operations the same way as before.
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Old 02-03-2009, 03:21 PM   #72
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I really did not want to turn this thread into a Begi bash fest. I was very frustrated with the process and wanted to share my experience with other users... just for reference. I know they fucked up badly and I know they apologized and are trying to make it better and that I am still pissed, but like I said before, I want to finish the process and have their system because it supposed to be the best. May be I am making the wrong decision by not returning everything, but I guess I am avoiding the process because I think it is involved. Even if it not involved, I just feel so much closer to finishing that I don't want to start all over. Again, I may be wrong on that... but I will stick to that decision for now. I keep thinking to myself, one more **** up and that's it. May be I should say it out loud... One more **** up and that is it....
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Old 02-03-2009, 03:37 PM   #73
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When you really want a specific thing it makes the long wait and all the problems easier to accept. Hopefully when you finally get it all sorted out and running you'll be very happy with it.
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Old 02-03-2009, 03:42 PM   #74
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I really did not want to turn this thread into a Begi bash fest. I was very frustrated with the process and wanted to share my experience with other users... just for reference. I know they fucked up badly and I know they apologized and are trying to make it better and that I am still pissed, but like I said before, I want to finish the process and have their system because it supposed to be the best. May be I am making the wrong decision by not returning everything, but I guess I am avoiding the process because I think it is involved. Even if it not involved, I just feel so much closer to finishing that I don't want to start all over. Again, I may be wrong on that... but I will stick to that decision for now. I keep thinking to myself, one more **** up and that's it. May be I should say it out loud... One more **** up and that is it....
I hear you dude and wholeheartedly agree with you. I feel that speaking the truth and pointing out the elephant in the room is fine to a point. I don't want to necessarily "bash" anyone, but sharing experiences, opionions, and advice doesn't have to be a bad thing all the time.

I too can only imagine the process you would have to go through to send it back. For sure it would suck, bigtime. But I wouldn't totally abort that idea until you spoke with the vendor and other vendors as well. I guess for now keep working on the car and make a deadline when you absolutely need the parts. As in have no other parts to install, need the parts to continue installing, or just ******* want to have them already! Try and work with BEGI and give them the deadline, letting them know this is serious. Then go from there.

This actually made me think to myself today "wow, good thing I bought my kit used from leebo". I think buying a used kit that was already fit to a car for 1/4 of the price is a better deal more and more.

Again goodluck man.

Vash-
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Old 02-03-2009, 03:51 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by 2002SilverMiata View Post
I really did not want to turn this thread into a Begi bash fest. I was very frustrated with the process and wanted to share my experience with other users... just for reference. I know they fucked up badly and I know they apologized and are trying to make it better and that I am still pissed, but like I said before, I want to finish the process and have their system because it supposed to be the best. May be I am making the wrong decision by not returning everything, but I guess I am avoiding the process because I think it is involved. Even if it not involved, I just feel so much closer to finishing that I don't want to start all over. Again, I may be wrong on that... but I will stick to that decision for now. I keep thinking to myself, one more **** up and that's it. May be I should say it out loud... One more **** up and that is it....
I thank you for starting this post. In my reading I have never seen this thread to be a bashing thread more of a informative one. I will say this though you are way more patient and calm than I would be in your situation. I too would make a deadline and if you don't have the parts in working order at a certain time then they will agree to refund you 100% the cost.
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Old 02-03-2009, 03:58 PM   #76
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Thanks guys. The DP should be finished and shipped out today according to Stephanie. If not, yes, a deadline will be set. That should be the last part I need back along with my turbo that they should be sending back with it. I will keep updating the thread with any changes. I did not get the LC-1 positioned yet, because I'm not sure where the wideband O2 bung will be (which side of the DP). So I may have to wait on that until Thursday. I am wiring the gauges tonight if it's not too cold. It's 9 degrees (F) here and the propane heater may not keep up too well in the garage... we'll see. Thanks again for the encouragement.
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Old 02-04-2009, 01:30 PM   #77
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You said it Tial sent you the wrong wastegate, you said someone else didnt send you the turbine housing?
Um, No, I said it was my fault the turbine housing was not sent back. But, yes, Tial screwed up. UPS did not deliver an overnight package on time. I wish I could wave my magic wand and make the world run my way. Should I get a written apology from all parties involved, would that make you happy?

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Still. You should have at least one piece of every part you sell in the event you need to use it for something, so you can recreate what you sold. Doing it the way you are with asking customers to send back parts is bananas.
I will not stock something we will not sell again, not when it could be replicated if needed. I don't know many people who would tie up $1200 and let it sit on the shelf so it could be there "IF" needed. This train of thought would also imply that I am supposed to stock a piece of everything we have ever sold, even turbo kit pieces from 15 years ago?!? Come on, that is just not reasonable and / or practical. Not to mention, I do not have the storage space for all of that. This is a custom piece. Custom pieces don't get mass produced. Or re-created without some effort.

Plenty of people have sent me manifolds and turbos and asked for a downpipe. I would think if it was so unreasonable, I would have heard so by now.

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Then Joe should have came in on Saturday, and Sunday to finish it and send it on Monday morning first thing.
Our employees deserve time at home and with their families. If this were a stay late Thursday to ship it on Friday, then I would ask him to do it. As it stands, he did twenty hours of work on this pipe in less than two working days. So rest assured, he did put in extra time to get it done as soon as possible.

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Its pretty simple. You gotta stand by your word. If he says its gonna be done, and you see that you are falling behind,
Agreed, If I had promised it would be finished then it should be finished. But I didn't. I said we would do our best. But If I make a promise, I will keep it. I was told it would take about 6 hours of work. Six hours turned into twenty due to the complicated nature of the pipe. All I can do is keep the customer informed of the progress, and ask the fabricator to do a better job of estimating the time involved next time.

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I don't get why this is such a mission, you guys have to have jigs setup to make these pipes one after the other. I hope you arent measuring, cutting, and shaping every single pipe you make on a car in the shop.
Seriously, how many times have I said: **CUSTOM PIPE**. I cannot recreate this any time I choose. Period. It was build off of a specific manifold, turbine housing/flange and external wastegate - a combo that is not likely to ever be seen again. I have a jig for this part that is only a guideline of dimensions that cannot be exceeded. Other "standard" pipes are different and can be created all day every day, but not his one. And no, we are not making pipes on a car in the shop. That is just not reasonable either.

I get where you are coming from. I understand what you have said. You are trying to stick up for someone who has been wronged. We made some mistakes in getting this done right the first time. But please don't go making assumptions that are not true and then fault me for it. You assume I promised him it would ship, you assumed this is a standard pipe, you assume I did not ask Joe to go the extra mile to get the pipe done, and you assume I am going to waste $2300 (in the current economic climate) so that I can stock parts I will never use again. The bottom line, I will take care of my customers, one way or another. I think there are plenty of people out there can vouch for that.
Stephanie
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Old 02-04-2009, 01:49 PM   #78
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The bottom line, I will take care of my customers, one way or another.
If this is what you call taking care of your customers, you folks are in trouble.
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Old 02-04-2009, 01:55 PM   #79
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On another note saying "well, that guy called me a bitch" kind of attitude is laughable, really. Being given the runaround on parts that customers are waiting for is inexcusable. Sometimes you just need to man up, shut up, and get the parts to the people that pay for them.
No offense, but the dealer was not given the run around. Why do you assume that? I guess I will have to more careful to very explicit on ALL details from the get go..

We did not have manifolds in stock. I cannot ship what is not here. I cannot change the fact that the foundry scrapped 600 pounds of manifolds due to a casting defect. He choose to wait for the manifolds to come in, so all I can do is apologize and tell him the manifolds are being re-done asap. The dealer knew all this, choose to wait, and still choose to behave in an in-appropriate manner. In my book, that is not giving the customer the run around. Maybe I need to modify my thinking.
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Old 02-04-2009, 01:58 PM   #80
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If this is what you call taking care of your customers, you folks are in trouble.
I'm all ears if you have suggestions and/or feedback.
Stephanie
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