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Old 02-04-2009, 03:17 PM   #81
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Um, No, I said it was my fault the turbine housing was not sent back. But, yes, Tial screwed up. UPS did not deliver an overnight package on time. I wish I could wave my magic wand and make the world run my way. Should I get a written apology from all parties involved, would that make you happy?
Uh yea, it actually might. In my line of work whenever vendors screw up and dont deliver they send a letter of apology. They put the project behind schedule and cost time and money and reputation, its not just OK.

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I will not stock something we will not sell again, not when it could be replicated if needed. I don't know many people who would tie up $1200 and let it sit on the shelf so it could be there "IF" needed. This train of thought would also imply that I am supposed to stock a piece of everything we have ever sold, even turbo kit pieces from 15 years ago?!? Come on, that is just not reasonable and / or practical. Not to mention, I do not have the storage space for all of that. This is a custom piece. Custom pieces don't get mass produced. Or re-created without some effort.
15 years ago may not be very practical, but a turbine housing alone, wont run you 1200 dollars. For 1200 you can have maybe 3 turbine housings, new that is. You can have even more if you get used ones to use for fab work.

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Plenty of people have sent me manifolds and turbos and asked for a downpipe. I would think if it was so unreasonable, I would have heard so by now.
Yea. I am sure you wouldnt hear anything. Why? When you are holding the persons money, and *****, no one wants to make matters more complicated. Just get the **** done they say at any cost, so they bend over and take it.

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Our employees deserve time at home and with their families. If this were a stay late Thursday to ship it on Friday, then I would ask him to do it. As it stands, he did twenty hours of work on this pipe in less than two working days. So rest assured, he did put in extra time to get it done as soon as possible.
Your employees need to learn accountability first. You stand by your words, thats the bottom line. Maybe in your line of work where you only affect 1 client its acceptable, but in reality it doesnt matter how many you affect, if you say something will be done, then its your duty to get it done. If its not loyalty, then call it work ethic. Working on a saturday or sunday wont kill anyone especially in 2009 when this is not a 9 - 5 society anymore, I have done it plenty of times for the greater good of the company and the team.

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Seriously, how many times have I said: **CUSTOM PIPE**. I cannot recreate this any time I choose. Period. It was build off of a specific manifold, turbine housing/flange and external wastegate - a combo that is not likely to ever be seen again. I have a jig for this part that is only a guideline of dimensions that cannot be exceeded. Other "standard" pipes are different and can be created all day every day, but not his one. And no, we are not making pipes on a car in the shop. That is just not reasonable either.
How can this be custom? Its a cast manifold, they should all be identical. How many different wastegates can you attach to it? This shouldnt be any more complicated then any other pipe you have made. Especially when this is something you offer as part of a kit, or separate purchase. This shouldnt be anything special, this is a KIT. Supposed to work from the start.

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I get where you are coming from. I understand what you have said. You are trying to stick up for someone who has been wronged. We made some mistakes in getting this done right the first time. But please don't go making assumptions that are not true and then fault me for it. You assume I promised him it would ship, you assumed this is a standard pipe, you assume I did not ask Joe to go the extra mile to get the pipe done, and you assume I am going to waste $2300 (in the current economic climate) so that I can stock parts I will never use again. The bottom line, I will take care of my customers, one way or another. I think there are plenty of people out there can vouch for that.
Stephanie
No you dont get where I am coming from. I am not defending 2002silvermiata, I am trying to prove to you that the way you do business needs to change to cope with increased demand, both of the product and of the business.

Promise or not, if you say it, it has to be done. Thats just how business works, and thats what customers demand. Theres nothing more to say about this.

It is a standard pipe, its a manifold you offer, part of a kit, nothing custom about it. it should work right from the start.

What Joe did and did not do is not my problem, all I know is Joe did not deliver. In fact, he could have delivered, but im sorry, he had to go home and spend the weekend relaxing. You gotta learn to put work ahead of personal life. YES, it is a terrible thing, I understand and I hate to do it, but today, it has to be done, especially when you know you have too. Also, if Joe went home without a care in the world for the customer that should have had his product on tuesday at the latest, well then you guys have other problems. If he felt bad about it, maybe its forgivable.


-----

Bottom line, you guys need to re-learn how to take care of your customers and how to run a business that is much larger then it was when you started it. Its just not the same ball game anymore, and your mistakes cannot be afforded.
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Old 02-04-2009, 03:18 PM   #82
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Just out of curiosity, can you post a picture of this 20 hour downpipe? That is a LONG freakin time to work on just a downpipe, holy smokes. Maybe you need a new fabricator. Think of how much money the company must be losing by paying a fabricator for 20 hours worth of work on something as simple as a downpipe?

Wow.
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Old 02-04-2009, 03:18 PM   #83
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I'm all ears if you have suggestions and/or feedback.
Stephanie
If you dont put your ear to the ground, you will never hear the buffalo coming.
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Old 02-04-2009, 03:40 PM   #84
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I have to agree with Sam. And I built my downpipe and exhaust in less than 20 hours. And I'd never done it before. 3" and separated gasses. It fits too.
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Old 02-04-2009, 04:39 PM   #85
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Bottom line, you guys need to re-learn how to take care of your customers and how to run a business that is much larger then it was when you started it. Its just not the same ball game anymore, and your mistakes cannot be afforded.
This is the crux of it IMHO.

Stephanie is doing a good job in trying to juggle clients, suppliers, vendors etc. But it seems, from this and the other thread, that things may be getting out of hand.

I was somewhat surprised that there are so many disgruntled customers out there and, it does beg the question, why Begi is always recommended (unreservedly) over Greddy. Advice always seems to be: don't bother with Greddy, or even FM, go Begi. It thus seems to me that Begi has a huge amount of goodwill out there - goodwill that could evaporate in the blink of an eye.

I'm not sure it's constructive having a go at Stephanie as, I'm sure, she really is doing her best and has the customer's best interests at heart at all times. Perhaps you guys need to cut her some slack and try to work these issues out - somehow.

Just my 2p worth

EDIT: Greddy FTW
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Old 02-04-2009, 05:41 PM   #86
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Did the DP arrive? Does it fit?
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Old 02-04-2009, 05:46 PM   #87
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Perhaps you guys need to cut her some slack and try to work these issues out - somehow.
Tell me you are drunk, please.

The very thing you are asking people to do is the cause of the problems in the first place.

-----

They have two solutions.

1. Stop taking new orders and finish everything they have left to deliver.
2. Ask for all the hardware back and refund peoples money.

After either of these things are done you take a week or two and completely re-analyze your process flows and determine where you are hitting complications. Then implement a new management structure for these processes. Taking orders for kits to delivery. External vendor supplied components. And so on and so on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephanie
*Intercoolers are made by us, from cores made in NY.
*Turbos are made by Garrett and modified by us for fit.
*Cast iron manifolds were designed by us, cast by a foundry in Texas, and machined in house by us in house.
*S4 manifolds were designed by us, outsourced overseas, machined and modified by BEGI.
*FMU's are designed by us, made by a CNC'er here in Texas, assembled and tested by BEGi.
*Downpipes are designed by us, made from materials made in CA or China, flanges are laser cut by a Texas company, everything is assembled and welded in house.
*Turbos and manifolds are ceramic coated by a company in Texas.
*Tubes are powdercoated in house or by a company in Texas.
*Tubes are fabricated and welded in house. U bends are made in CA, 90 degree elbows come from china via a company in CA.
*Radiator covers are laser cut by a company here in Texas.
*filters are made by K&N or Amsoil.
*Turbo hose is bought from a company in the US, however it is made in Mexico.
*t-bolt clamps typically come from Clampco.
*Gauge mounts are made by an individual here in Texas.
*Boost gauges are made by Autometer.
*Wideband gauges are made by Innovate.
*Bypass valves come from Mitsubishi
*air boxes, heat shields, scoopers, are all 100% fabricated in house.
*Stainless oil lines are assembled/crimped in house. Made from supplies manufactured in CA and/or overseas.
*Miscellaneous hardware come from Texas suppliers but is probably made elsewhere. ie. rubber hoses, hardware, etc..
Each line is its own process, and it must be analyzed and planned to function cohesively with the others. This would involve a very simple management structure change, and some one on one with suppliers to plan everything out on their end.

Then you can be a well oiled machine that doesn't hinge on 1 person, 1 supplier, or 1 build problem.
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Old 02-04-2009, 05:53 PM   #88
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Uh yea, it actually might. In my line of work whenever vendors screw up and dont deliver they send a letter of apology. They put the project behind schedule and cost time and money and reputation, its not just OK.
Well, this is not your line of work. Nor is this the government, or government contract work. If you would like to call Tial and demand an apology because their shipping clerk was an airhead, please feel free to do so - just leave my name out of it. We would like to continue to do business with them in the future.

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15 years ago may not be very practical, but a turbine housing alone, wont run you 1200 dollars. For 1200 you can have maybe 3 turbine housings, new that is. You can have even more if you get used ones to use for fab work.
Agreed, and we have misc. turbine housings here for that express purpose. But we do not have a T3 housing with the smaller flange to fit a GT2860 on the shelf. By the time i can get one ordered and sent here, it is faster to get the turbo back from the customer. And less chance of a fitment issue.

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Yea. I am sure you wouldnt hear anything. Why? When you are holding the persons money, and *****, no one wants to make matters more complicated. Just get the **** done they say at any cost, so they bend over and take it.
Quite the contrary. We typically charge the same price as kit downpipes, maybe a $100 more. That is all! So I hardly think that is bending over and taking it.

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Your employees need to learn accountability first. You stand by your words, thats the bottom line. Maybe in your line of work where you only affect 1 client its acceptable, but in reality it doesnt matter how many you affect, if you say something will be done, then its your duty to get it done. If its not loyalty, then call it work ethic. Working on a saturday or sunday wont kill anyone especially in 2009 when this is not a 9 - 5 society anymore, I have done it plenty of times for the greater good of the company and the team.
I am sorry, but Corky and I will never be that much of a hard *** with our employees. Will we ask them to fix something, estimate time better, work a little faster and chit chat less, get to work on time, etc - no problem. This is a small manufacturing business not a huge employer like Coca Cola, Dell, etc.. Good fabricators are hard enough to come by, that we are not going to be demanding/*** hole employers. If we have a special project that requires more time, they are usually happy to accommodate us because we are nice about it. They show up on time, do a good job, have a good attitude, get parts built in a timely manner, and allow me to screw with their build schedule. They are good employees. And most importantly, they like working for us. Just because they do not work 80 hours a week when I demand it, does not mean they have bad work ethic. It is just different than yours.

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How can this be custom? Its a cast manifold, they should all be identical. How many different wastegates can you attach to it? This shouldnt be any more complicated then any other pipe you have made. Especially when this is something you offer as part of a kit, or separate purchase. This shouldnt be anything special, this is a KIT. Supposed to work from the start.
I agree, it is supposed to work from the start. But tell me, how many people you know running a GT2860RS, external wastegate, T3 turbine/manifold flange, T3 housing, and the smaller T3 turbine/downpipe flange? This is the first one we have ever come thru these doors, and we are not likely to make another one, therefore, it is a custom piece. Should it be more complicated to make? Maybe, Maybe not. It depends on how much the size of the turbine housing has offset things.

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What Joe did and did not do is not my problem, all I know is Joe did not deliver. In fact, he could have delivered, but im sorry, he had to go home and spend the weekend relaxing. You gotta learn to put work ahead of personal life. YES, it is a terrible thing, I understand and I hate to do it, but today, it has to be done, especially when you know you have too.
Joe did deliver. I did not give him a deadline. I told him i needed done by friday, if possible. He gets what that means. That does not mean that we don't consider it important, since everything else is put on hold to finish this one item. I am sorry we have more of a laid back perspective than you do, but that is the way it is. But, we will NEVER ask an employee to put work ahead of their personal life and family. That is absolutely ludicrous.

We have made alot of changes in the last six months that affect all spectrums of production. We have been aware of the problem and are taking steps to fix it to the best of our ability.
Stephanie
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Old 02-04-2009, 06:03 PM   #89
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Just out of curiosity, can you post a picture of this 20 hour downpipe? That is a LONG freakin time to work on just a downpipe, holy smokes. Maybe you need a new fabricator. Think of how much money the company must be losing by paying a fabricator for 20 hours worth of work on something as simple as a downpipe?
He disassembled the old pipe to construct the new one. The flange and the angle of the tubing exiting the flange had to be maintained and worked around. I am not concerned with the length of time it took, that is just the way it worked out. And I am certain if he had to do a second one, it would take half the time as the first. I was looking over his shoulder the entire time, and I have no problem with how he made it or how long it took. Other than the fact we could not ship it sooner.

And no, it does not take this long to a make a downpipe. Most downpipes only take 3 - 8 hours to make, depending on the type.
Stephanie
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Old 02-04-2009, 06:26 PM   #90
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I don't know if I speak for alot of people here,but I would like to say.....Sam101,STFU already,unless you have ordered something from BEGi recently and have been personnally affected by their mistakes,you have no right to lash out at a company the way you have been doing.Your making a bigger deal out of this **** than the person/people that have been affected by the mistakes made by Bell.
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Old 02-04-2009, 07:59 PM   #91
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Saml01, are you a consultant or something? lol

It sounds like you have some business sense so you probably understand that many small businesses get caught up working IN the business and don't take the time to work ON the business. Which is why they hire consultants to help refine their processes!

Anyways...

It does sound like BEGi is trying, and I understand how frustrating it can when suppliers don't hold up to their end of the bargain which causes you to disappoint the customer. It sucks, but it does happen, especially with a small business.

P.S. I still want to see some pics of this downpipe!
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:40 AM   #92
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I don't know if I speak for alot of people here,but I would like to say.....Sam101,STFU already,unless you have ordered something from BEGi recently and have been personnally affected by their mistakes,you have no right to lash out at a company the way you have been doing.Your making a bigger deal out of this **** than the person/people that have been affected by the mistakes made by Bell.
Uh, I was. Not recently, but last year.

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Saml01, are you a consultant or something? lol

It sounds like you have some business sense so you probably understand that many small businesses get caught up working IN the business and don't take the time to work ON the business. Which is why they hire consultants to help refine their processes!
Im not a consultant. I just worked in plenty of small business and now work in corporate so I personally have lived through and experienced many different styles of management, and if my views seem a bit harsh thats because those who disagree have not worked in the real world yet.

But you are totally right on the second part, time to work "ON the business".
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Old 02-05-2009, 12:41 PM   #93
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Uh, I was. Not recently, but last year.
You will have to refresh my memory, but here is what I have on invoices.
You bought a used BEGI-S downpipe that the seller mis-labeled for the year. As the pipe was still under warranty, we switched it out for a new one. No cost to you.

We also sold you a BEGI-S pipe, that we later replaced within two weeks because the flex joint and O2 sensor were in the wrong location.

Like I said, maybe I remember incorrectly, but that hardly seems reason enough for your tirades.
Stephanie
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Old 02-05-2009, 01:05 PM   #94
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You will have to refresh my memory, but here is what I have on invoices.
You bought a used BEGI-S downpipe that the seller mis-labeled for the year. As the pipe was still under warranty, we switched it out for a new one. No cost to you.
In other words,you did not have to honour the warranrty due to the fact he is not the original purchaser of the DP,but did the exchange just to help him out.

And in return for your kindness,he lashes out at your business for no good reason.

.....what a ingrate.
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Old 02-05-2009, 01:16 PM   #95
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Cant we all just get along and hold hands, be fellow brothers and sisters, sing around the campfire, ect...
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Old 02-05-2009, 01:35 PM   #96
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Seriously, Sam may be acting like a ***** for good reason or not - BUT Stephanie...putting someone's purchasing info out there...not very professional, no matter what the circumstances are. I understand both sides of this story...and I spoke with Stephanie about some changes being made over there...I think if we give them a few more weeks...we will see these changes.

FWIW, Stephanie has more than helped me...since I am buying TWO kits at the same time - both custom builds.

I customize cars for a living...I know you guys don't expect zero downtime...but seriously...not everyone can pump stuff out like Chip Foose from Overhaulin. I cannot think of a single car build that has taken less than 3 months for me. Granted that includes a COMPLETE build...but I am working by myself on this...Bell is pumping out alot of product for a wide base and trying to meet our needs. I don't know that Bell needs to be more customer service oriented...but perhaps less. If they said "no" to more requests and let us find our own way (like most other vendors seem to), they would be able to produce the cookie cutter kits it seems people think these are. I am BY NO MEANS saying that Bell is in the right...I am simply trying to provide and objective few.

Just my opinion.

Last edited by boardboy330; 02-05-2009 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 02-05-2009, 02:37 PM   #97
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If you dont put your ear to the ground, you will never hear the buffalo coming.

Sounds like you have been involve with "LEAN" concepts. IMO, you are not being an *** about anything. Sounds to me like you are offering some good, sound advise. In my workplace, I relook all my processes periodically to see if there are ways to do it better. It's smart business. If it were me, instead of being defensive, I'd be talking to you offline looking to get some advise on how to improve my processes.
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Old 02-05-2009, 03:20 PM   #98
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I don't know that Bell needs to be more customer service oriented...but perhaps less. If they said "no" to more requests and let us find our own way (like most other vendors seem to), they would be able to produce the cookie cutter kits it seems people think these are.
+1 agree
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:05 PM   #99
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Update - I received the DP and turbo back as promised. Things look good but they are not on the car yet... crossing my fingers. I will keep everyone updated when that happens.
I need help on the gauges. In the instructions, it says to connect the lighting stuff to a switched wire that goes to the lights... I want them to change with the rheostat for the inside lighting... which wire should I tap on that rheostat to get that effect? Thanks.
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:14 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Stephanie Turner View Post
You will have to refresh my memory, but here is what I have on invoices.
You bought a used BEGI-S downpipe that the seller mis-labeled for the year. As the pipe was still under warranty, we switched it out for a new one. No cost to you.

We also sold you a BEGI-S pipe, that we later replaced within two weeks because the flex joint and O2 sensor were in the wrong location.

Like I said, maybe I remember incorrectly, but that hardly seems reason enough for your tirades.
Stephanie
No. You guys didn't do any switching under warranty. I was screwed over on two downpipes by two different sellers, both were for different years and I had to sell them at loss. One went to Distrubedfan121 the other to Stein.

I paid for a Begi S pipe, waited like two weeks, then waited 2 more for an exchange when it hit the trans.

HAD I KNOWN I could have exchanged them under warranty, which is the FIRST TIME I hear of this, I would have been your best friend till the end of time.(not blaming you)

If you like I can show you the invoice I still have that shows I was billed for 300 something dollars.

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Originally Posted by spike View Post
In other words,you did not have to honour the warranrty due to the fact he is not the original purchaser of the DP,but did the exchange just to help him out.

And in return for your kindness,he lashes out at your business for no good reason.

.....what a ingrate.
I didnt get an exchange. I bought it.
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