Big gun-rights win in TEXAS... Open Carry and Campus Carry - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Current Events, News, Politics Keep the politics here.

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-01-2015, 12:20 PM   #1
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
 
samnavy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: VIRGINIA BEACH, VA
Posts: 6,020
Total Cats: 175
Default Big gun-rights win in TEXAS... Open Carry and Campus Carry

I thought this deserved it's own thread. You can Google as required for newspaper articles, but basically:

OPEN CARRY: becomes legal January 1st 2016 for handguns. Technically, OC for long-guns has been legal in Texas without a permit depending on which cop you ask. In rural areas, no issues, but clearly you don't do it in Austin.

There was one last minute sticking point that is of interest to note. Most of you are familiar with the term "Terry Stop". Basically, the 4th Amendment in the Bill of Rights has been determined by the Supreme Court to mean that the police can't detain you for no reason... they need "probable cause"... which means you can't be detained simply for OC'ing... good luck with that one. Remember, if you are "free to go", you are not being "detained"... but if a cop asks to speak with you and you do so, including giving him your ID and carrying on a conversation while he fishes for a reason to detain you, you're a moron.

The issue for Texas is that the new law states you can only OC if you have a valid CCW (WTF you say?) Yup. And since Texas CCW law states specifically that any cop can ask you for your CCW at any time, he should be able to ask you for your CCW if you are OC'ing to make sure you're legal... except what about "Terry"?

So... we got what we wanted in that OC is now legal... but the anti's got what they wanted because of the inevitable madness of police being able to stop every OC'er they want to ask for their CCW... which is unconstitutional under the 4th, right? What? Yup? Really? Yup. It's what they're doing now. But also now, getting your CCW and then OC'ing, you are agreeing to getting stopped JUST SO THEY CAN CHECK.

So... the supporters of OC wanted an amendment specifically in the bill that spelled out CLEARLY that OC alone did not justify probable cause... totally unnecessary because of "Terry"... but the anti's and all of Texas law enforcement opposed it for obvious reasons. So the amendment was left out of the bill... so what will happen is that people will still continue to get arrested for OC at the whim of police, then sue the police dept for violation of the 4th and Terry, and collect fat "rights infringement" checks on the taxpayers dollar. Activists judges will continue to rule both ways further complicating things... awesome.

CAMPUS CARRY: Legal starting Fall 2016 semesters. No OC on campus. Still must be of legal age to own firearms and have a valid CCW. Colleges may specifically ban firearms in dorms. Still searching if they carved out an exemption for private universities.
EDIT*** Looks like they specifically cannot ban possession of firearms in dorms, but definitely ban OC in dorms. Also expected are stringent storage requirements.
EDIT*** Cutout for private universities was passed... I'm not exactly disappointed that private-property laws prevailed in this case.

OTHER NOTABLE LAWS THAT PASSED IN TEXAS:
Constitutional right to hunt and fish
More protections to NFA owners by fixing defense to prosecution penalties
Established civil fines for municipalities/officials who illegally post public property with 30.06 laws
State preemption on knife laws


Attached Thumbnails
Big gun-rights win in TEXAS... Open Carry and Campus Carry-oc_summary.png  

Last edited by samnavy; 06-01-2015 at 12:43 PM.
samnavy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2015, 12:25 PM   #2
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Ryan_G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 2,579
Total Cats: 155
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
CAMPUS CARRY: Legal starting Fall 2016 semesters. No OC on campus. Still must be of legal age to own firearms and have a valid CCW. Colleges may specifically ban firearms in dorms. Still searching if they carved out an exemption for private universities.
I couldn't give two ***** about open carry because I think it's really stupid but I really think its about god damn time campus carry is a thing. The less "gun free" zones the better since mass shootings usually seem to take place in gun free zones.
Ryan_G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2015, 12:36 PM   #3
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
 
samnavy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: VIRGINIA BEACH, VA
Posts: 6,020
Total Cats: 175
Default

I'm buying one of these just so I can OC like a bauce when I visit TX. Ruger Vaquero in .45 Colt, bitches!

Attached Thumbnails
Big gun-rights win in TEXAS... Open Carry and Campus Carry-txjockstrap.jpg  
samnavy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2015, 12:55 PM   #4
Junior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: PHX, Arizona
Posts: 227
Total Cats: 13
Default

I don't understand how Arizona is so screwed up and yet we have better gun laws than Texas. Seriously, how is open carry not a thing in Texas, when you don't even need a permit to concealed carry in Arizona?
humming is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2015, 12:58 PM   #5
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: OKC, OK
Posts: 2,650
Total Cats: 76
Default

I just don't understand why anyone would want to open carry anyway.

Seems like it would constantly bring extra unwanted attention, not just from LEOs but from everyone.
z31maniac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2015, 01:05 PM   #6
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 6,009
Total Cats: 583
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by humming View Post
I don't understand how Arizona is so screwed up and yet we have better gun laws than Texas. Seriously, how is open carry not a thing in Texas, when you don't even need a permit to concealed carry in Arizona?
Yep. Up 'till now, TX gun laws were the same as CA, NY and IL. That is one of the strangest looking maps you'll ever see and reflects some old history. My understanding is that the OC prohibition in TX is over a century old. As nice as Ft. Worth is today, 100 years ago it was one of the roughest places in the US, and these types of laws were passed as an attempt to clean things up -- similar to the gun laws in S. Chicago today.

Anyway, I'm all for restoring freedom wherever we can. I'm with Rand Paul on the "Patriot" Act expiration for instance. Those that give up freedom for "security" deserve neither.
hornetball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2015, 01:09 PM   #7
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
 
samnavy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: VIRGINIA BEACH, VA
Posts: 6,020
Total Cats: 175
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by z31maniac View Post
I just don't understand why anyone would want to open carry anyway.

Seems like it would constantly bring extra unwanted attention, not just from LEOs but from everyone.
Or not. I know a few people who OC everywhere they go and have never had an issue with anybody. In fact, I don't personally know a person who OC's who's ever had an issue. The stories you hear of "unwanted attention" and then put the attention they received on YT are normally people who are acting in a way designed to bring the exact kind of attention they received. Brain will likely chime in here that I support civil rights violations with that opinion. I also don't like pit bulls even though I've never met a mean one.

I have OC'd a few times with the occasional second glances, but I'm also a 6'4" white guy who dresses tastefully and acts like an adult in public. I don't seek attention and it has never sought me out when I've OC'd.

OTOH... my personal protection plan is my business, and I CCW everywhere I'm legally able to at all times... so I don't OC... I did it a few times to see what the result would be and my experience is exactly what I thought it would be, benign.
samnavy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2015, 01:26 PM   #8
mkturbo.com
iTrader: (24)
 
shuiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 13,776
Total Cats: 1,106
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by z31maniac View Post
I just don't understand why anyone would want to open carry anyway.

Seems like it would constantly bring extra unwanted attention, not just from LEOs but from everyone.
I open carried regularly in VA when I lived up there. For a while it was because I did not have my CCW. After I got that it was because you had to OC inside any establishment that served alcohol. If I wanted to run into Chipotle to grab a burrito I had to switch to OC, or grabbing a slice of pizza at my local pizza joint. Lots of times I honestly just forgot to cover my firearm back up after leaving. I never had an issue or anyone seem to give me different looks.

2 weekends ago I was in NC at a random flea market on the side of the road in the mountains. I saw a guy OCing and I did not even register it until a little bit afterwards. It did not bother me at all.
shuiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2015, 01:33 PM   #9
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,093
Total Cats: 90
Default

Put me down as another that thinks OC is stupid, and is happy at the removal of the campus ban.

NH is working on removing the requirement to have a CCW permit to CCW. I do not like this, it will make it more difficult for NH residents to get CCW permits in certain states which require you to have the permit from your own state before you are eligible to get one there. And I mean for residents of the state it take 2 weeks tops to get and costs $10 and its shall issue, so that have to give it to you unless they find a reason not to.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2015, 01:37 PM   #10
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Ryan_G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 2,579
Total Cats: 155
Default

My problem with open carrying has a lot less to do with unwanted attention during mundane everyday life but with the idea that if I am in a confrontation of any kind the existence of a firearm in plain sight on my body will likely serve no other purpose than to escalate the situation. It also, in my opinion, offers a tactical disadvantage. Although you can generally draw faster with an open carry and aggressor can also access your gun more easily and knows that you have it and could more easily anticipate its use. It just seems to offer no real benefit to broadcast that I have a gun on my person.
Ryan_G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2015, 02:17 PM   #11
Junior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: PHX, Arizona
Posts: 227
Total Cats: 13
Default

It’s interesting, my current job prohibits firearms on site(something about jet fuel and all the welding tanks :-P), and my new job I’m starting in 2 weeks I believe is also not so keen on the idea, but at my last job… I bet half the office CC’d every day once the law was passed. I don’t carry because I don’t have a handgun currently, but I am a huge fan of CC and hope that Arizona passes a college campus CCW authorization.
humming is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2015, 02:51 PM   #12
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,997
Total Cats: 1,463
Default

<p>My GF grew up with a dad who CC all the time, and she believes she needs to CC to feel safe. But the way I look at it is if someone has a gun pointed at her how is a gun in her purse going to help her, I feel like it will just make her a target. Thoughts? Other points of view?&nbsp;</p><p>Also, my campus has gone back and forth on the CC cary, currently CC is banned but it seems to flip flop every few years.</p>
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2015, 03:02 PM   #13
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 6,009
Total Cats: 583
Default

In the local news here was a story about a little old lady that did well in an attempted carjacking. Perp put a knife to her throat in the parking lot and told her to hand over the keys. She went into her purse, got her pistol, stuck it into the perp's face and told him "if you don't leave me alone, I'll blow your ^*%$# head off." He left . . . quickly.

The interview was hilarious. Such a sweet lady, her eyes just lit up as she told the story.
hornetball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2015, 03:04 PM   #14
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,997
Total Cats: 1,463
Default

<p>Reminds me of this:&nbsp;http://lazer1033.com/moose/dirty-joke-old-lady-with-guns/</p><p>I don't know, I just don't see how someone car jacking with a knife wouldn't do something an instant a gun came out. I think we've reached a compromise with a big *** tazer and keychain pepper spray.&nbsp;</p>
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2015, 05:33 PM   #15
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
 
samnavy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: VIRGINIA BEACH, VA
Posts: 6,020
Total Cats: 175
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
<p>My GF grew up with a dad who CC all the time, and she believes she needs to CC to feel safe. But the way I look at it is if someone has a gun pointed at her how is a gun in her purse going to help her, I feel like it will just make her a target. Thoughts?
That's actually the second most common argument made by anti-gun folks about "women and guns" in general.

Consider however that the exact same reasoning would apply to a anybody with a weapon not already in their hand, no matter how quickly accessible. Whether it's a man or woman carrying IWB/OWB/shoulder/appendix/Israeli/purse/ankle/etc... if somebody has the drop on you, your options are considerably more limited.

What you've done is limit your example scenario to fit a preconceived narrative... that women shouldn't own guns for self-defense because men are stronger and will just take it from them, making the situation "worse". What about the hundreds of other scenarios we could talk about for a man or woman PRIOR to the bad guy actually having a gun in his hand and pointed at them.

A firearm for self-defense is only one tool in your (what should be) extensive self-protection plan. If you reach the point one day where a bad guy has absolutely gotten the drop on you, and already has a gun pointed at you... you should probably do what they say and look for opportunities to create a positive outcome. This "opportunity" might be to draw, or perhaps to run... but it's really immaterial that you happen to be a woman with a gun in your purse at that point.

However, I have to ask what you were doing in the previous 30 seconds or several minutes where you were so behind in situational awareness that you let somebody get that much of an advantage. Sure, sometimes life just sucks for you and the bad guy is that much better... but probably you could have done more if you'd been paying attention. Just saying.
samnavy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2015, 05:37 PM   #16
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,997
Total Cats: 1,463
Default

<p>
Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
That's actually the second most common argument made by anti-gun folks about &quot;women and guns&quot; in general. Consider however that the exact same reasoning would apply to a anybody with a weapon not already in their hand, no matter how quickly accessible. Whether it's a man or woman carrying IWB/OWB/shoulder/appendix/Israeli/purse/ankle/etc... if somebody has the drop on you, your options are considerably more limited. What you've done is limit your example scenario to fit a preconceived narrative... that women shouldn't own guns for self-defense because men are stronger and will just take it from them, making the situation &quot;worse&quot;. What about the hundreds of other scenarios we could talk about for a man or woman PRIOR to the bad guy actually having a gun in his hand and pointed at them. A firearm for self-defense is only one tool in your (what should be) extensive self-protection plan. If you reach the point one day where a bad guy has absolutely gotten the drop on you, and already has a gun pointed at you... you should probably do what they say and look for opportunities to create a positive outcome. This &quot;opportunity&quot; might be to draw, or perhaps to run... but it's really immaterial that you happen to be a woman with a gun in your purse at that point. However, I have to ask what you were doing in the previous 30 seconds or several minutes where you were so behind in situational awareness that you let somebody get that much of an advantage. Sure, sometimes life just sucks for you and the bad guy is that much better... but probably you could have done more if you'd been paying attention. Just saying.
</p><p>I should clarify that I don't mean just her or women in general. I only specified because she grew up with a different viewpoint on guns and CC than I did.&nbsp;I don't CC for the same reason. I have limited self defense training, she has even less. She believes that she will be able to pull out a gun and save the day when I feel like she will be further endangering herself by pulling out a gun.</p><p>I believe that with proper self defense training CC can be a weapon in the arsenal, but just getting a license and throwing a gun in your purse/holster can cause greater damage to yourself and others.</p>
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2015, 06:39 PM   #17
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 889
Total Cats: 55
Default

I've had less trouble with open carry on night shift then concealed.

I used to locksmith and would avoid bad areas at night. Some contracts ding you hard if you refuse service calls.... Regardless of their intent people give you less **** when they think you won't take it.

I was curious too if it was better to open or conceal and in my particular scenario it was more beneficial to open carry.
krissetsfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2015, 10:26 PM   #18
Destroyer of Inconel
iTrader: (37)
 
EO2K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In ur driveway, abusin' ur WPA
Posts: 9,642
Total Cats: 954
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
My GF grew up with a dad who CC all the time, and she believes she needs to CC to feel safe. But the way I look at it is if someone has a gun pointed at her how is a gun in her purse going to help her, I feel like it will just make her a target. Thoughts? Other points of view?
Based solely on the length of time it takes my wife to find her keys in her purse, I doubt a gun would be that useful to her.

Joking aside, I live in one of the top 5 most obnoxious counties in California to try to get a CCW and the state has made it nearly impossible to purchase a decent CCW piece thanks to the shitty CA DOJ Handgun Roster. My wife has proper knowledge, skills and attitude (where my instructors at?) to shoot safely but lacks the experience or range time to make the mechanics of shooting second nature. Part of this is finding something she is comfortable shooting and part of this is her just getting more range time in. Her father and brother are both CCW holders (because their county sheriff isn't an *******) and they have encouraged both of us to do the same. She has shown interest and I would trust her judgement with the use of a firearm in a personal defense situation but honestly, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with her actually carrying until her mechanics improve.

But that's just me. In the end its her right and her decision. I'd support her no matter what she decided. I'm certainly not going to tell her what to do but you damn sure better believe I'd drag her *** to the range for more frequent practice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
I believe that with proper self defense training CC can be a weapon in the arsenal, but just getting a license and throwing a gun in your purse/holster can cause greater damage to yourself and others.
My sentiments exactly. Just because you CAN does not mean that you SHOULD. One would hope the approval process for a CCW would take care of this, but out this way it can be either a gimmie or an incredible pain in the ***, depending on where you live in this state.
EO2K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2015, 10:43 PM   #19
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,187
Total Cats: 2,583
Default

My opinion:I find this so stupid and hilarious, no offense.

Someone runs up to you, threatens, you shoot them, the likelihood of you going away for a long time or ever is high, you go through insane court trials and all sorts of crap over what? The fact that like .0001 people get shot or killed in these situations and somehow walking around with a weapon is going to make you good at diffusing a situation? C'mon. And then there's the crazies who will shoot people either way, so unless you can spot the, shoot and successfully kill them before they do what they wanna do, you won't stop jack diddly.
Now, before the hatered flows, I'd like to say: I've come to the US from a country where so many people carry weapons. So what do the bad guys do? They carry bigger weapons. They carry automatic weapons. They're organized. So the people that want to jack you will end up killing you regardless, whether you take one or two of them out as you go or not.

The false sense of security or that somehow this is a good idea is what really makes me laugh. You can find just as many of, if not more, videos/reports/incidents where people with guns got robbed or killed as you will people without guns.

PS: the best part is if you kill one of them and then as you're feeling all cool about yourself they come back and murder you family. One, by, one.

But of course, I enjoy hearing stories and seeing vids of "instant justice" as much as the next guy, so don't write me off as some hippie or something. I just don't see why this is so cool
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2015, 11:00 PM   #20
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Newcastle, Australia
Posts: 2,639
Total Cats: 25
Default

The stats dont agree with you.

Brought to you by a guy from a guns are banned, leftist commy state in the middle of nowhere.
nitrodann is online now   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need help - Stock Balancer and Fastforward overlay pulleys Frank_and_Beans Supercharger Discussion 13 09-12-2016 09:17 PM
My solution for Oiltemp and Oilpressure input into Megasuirt (MS3) Zaphod MEGAsquirt 41 01-24-2016 01:25 PM
Back to Stock Part Out!! Turbo Parts, MS2 Enhanced 01-05, Suspension, and MOAR! StratoBlue1109 Miata parts for sale/trade 16 10-02-2015 10:39 AM
New M62 Miata owner Pist0n Meet and Greet 4 10-01-2015 09:18 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:01 AM.