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Old 06-19-2015, 12:18 PM   #101
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Actually, I think this may have started it.

Not a good way to start an argument.
I stand by the statement, in the sense that open carry for many is a macho, dick measuring contest. Though admittedly, maybe I should've eased into the conversation. In my defense, I never saw much subtlety on the board, and at least we all know where we stand now.
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Old 06-19-2015, 12:27 PM   #102
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I ain't mad, I just like to keep these conversations respectful because it's such an emotional topic.
I'm not a fan of open carry either, but I respect the right to do so.
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Old 06-19-2015, 12:30 PM   #103
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Seriously? This is getting tiresome. When did I say ban all guns? I own guns, and would like to keep them; potentially buy another one. Again, your "all or nothing" mentality is showing.
Ok, so you can have guns but nobody else can, cause you ain't cray cray and you don't trust others to have them?

Oh and your high capacity argument is invalid due the events in SC. A low capacity, single stack .45 was used. He made several reloads and nobody was able to stop him in the 5 seconds it took to reload x however many times he reloaded.
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Old 06-19-2015, 12:32 PM   #104
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I ain't mad, I just like to keep these conversations respectful because it's such an emotional topic.
I'm not a fan of open carry either, but I respect the right to do so.

Done for the right reasons, I agree. But, pushing for complete deregulation of everything gun-related comes off as obtuse, uninformed and dangerously illogical.

Again, individuals using "because I want to" as their reasoning behind such arguments is nothing short of idiotic and selfish. Part of living in society is understanding the impact of your actions on those around you. I'm seeing a lot of "because I want to" in these posts. That's what gets me the most.
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Old 06-19-2015, 12:35 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Monk View Post
I ain't mad, I just like to keep these conversations respectful because it's such an emotional topic.
I'm not a fan of open carry either, but I respect the right to do so.
I agree on the open carry and the right to do so should you want. I wouldn't carry that way but i don't live in a gun friendly state.

I would just like to able to protect my family if i so choose. I went through multiple background checks, references were called, fingerprints sent to the feds, interviews and proof of training. I was denied a CC permit due to not having a good and substantial reason to carry. Chill, is that the kind of regulations you want? I don't have a speck on my record.
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Old 06-19-2015, 12:38 PM   #106
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Ok, so you can have guns but nobody else can, cause you ain't cray cray and you don't trust others to have them?

Oh and your high capacity argument is invalid due the events in SC. A low capacity, single stack .45 was used. He made several reloads and nobody was able to stop him in the 5 seconds it took to reload x however many times he reloaded.
Yes- I can have guns because I'm not cray-cray. Precisely. I'm of sound mind and capable of making responsible decisions. You nailed it, despite your attempt at sarcasm. Welcome back.

I think we should hand guns out to everyone, along with free condoms. At least everyone will use the guns.

Could he have done more damage with larger mags? I'd say yes.
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Old 06-19-2015, 12:40 PM   #107
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if you handed out guns, then someone would have been able to stop him.
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Old 06-19-2015, 12:41 PM   #108
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Ok, so you can have guns but nobody else can, cause you ain't cray cray and you don't trust others to have them?

Oh and your high capacity argument is invalid due the events in SC. A low capacity, single stack .45 was used. He made several reloads and nobody was able to stop him in the 5 seconds it took to reload x however many times he reloaded.


The man who shot Gabby Gifford was taken down when he went to reload.
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Old 06-19-2015, 12:54 PM   #109
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I agree on the open carry and the right to do so should you want. I wouldn't carry that way but i don't live in a gun friendly state.

I would just like to able to protect my family if i so choose. I went through multiple background checks, references were called, fingerprints sent to the feds, interviews and proof of training. I was denied a CC permit due to not having a good and substantial reason to carry. Chill, is that the kind of regulations you want? I don't have a speck on my record.
I live in NY, and in my county, a permit just to hunt / target shoot takes ~12 months, fingerprinting, background check, personal references, training, and a fee. Pretty much the same as your state / county. The timeline is excessive, the checks & balances are not. I'd also love it if we all had to have a psychological eval done as well.

In order to adopt a child, you must go through such an evaluation. But you can get a gun without it.... That's weird to me.


I'm guessing that you stated "personal protection" on your CC permit. A lot of states see that as "I expect to encounter an issue where my life is in danger, and I want to be prepared". They then need to be able to trust that you're not going to go overreact to non-life threatening encounters, making others collateral damage. In the heat of the moment, people do stupid **** and overreact, regardless of their past. I see it as an attempt to mitigate that risk. I could be wayyy off.

It's funny, I think now is a good time to bring up the fact that I've been robbed at gunpoint on the street. I complied, and went on my way to live another day.

I've also had my home invaded by two men, guns drawn, and they tried to remove me from a common area where my friends were being held captive on the floor, so I could be dealt with alone in a different room. I'm glad I didn't have a gun on me. I'm glad because I would've killed someone, OR, they would've seen me going for it and killed me. I got away, and the story is nothing short of chilling; a well placed elbow got me free, upstairs, and to my roommates Mossberg Persuader. They ran once I got free, and nobody was hurt.

Still, having all of that scary *** first-hand experience, I don't think toting openly is always the answer. I don't need a shoot-out; I need to see my family and friends again.
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Old 06-19-2015, 12:54 PM   #110
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The man who shot Gabby Gifford was taken down when he went to reload.
Because he dropped the magazine. Had the ccw holder arrived earlier, the situation could have been quite different. That is an argument not worth having because we will never know. It is like saying the SC shooter could have done more damage with a higher capacity firearm. He could have dropped the magazine also.
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Old 06-19-2015, 12:59 PM   #111
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if you handed out guns, then someone would have been able to stop him.
And everyone is a wonderful shot, amirite? Collateral.Damage.

Then you have 10 people firing guns, and maybe not everyone knows WHICH guy is the original shooter. Sound implausible? It's happened.
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Old 06-19-2015, 01:06 PM   #112
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And everyone is a wonderful shot, amirite? Collateral.Damage.

Then you have 10 people firing guns, and maybe not everyone knows WHICH guy is the original shooter. Sound implausible? It's happened.
A mass shooter is usually looking for an easy target, like a gun free zone. They want as many casualties as possible with the least resistance. Their fantasy ends when someone can return fire. Stop the gun free zones and mass shooters won't know if anyone is a threat. Kinda ruins the fantasy.

Anyways, i will tone it done. Had you presented your past experiences earlier, then we might be sympathetic to your views.
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Old 06-19-2015, 01:06 PM   #113
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Because he dropped the magazine. Had the ccw holder arrived earlier, the situation could have been quite different. That is an argument not worth having because we will never know. It is like saying the SC shooter could have done more damage with a higher capacity firearm. He could have dropped the magazine also.
Precisely, he kept dumping mags that still had rounds in them for no reason as well.
Also consider the Virginia Tech shooting. Neither of the weapons that psycho used were high capacity (one was a 10 round 22 pistol), and that stands as the worse mass shooting in the US to date.
Same story with columbine (double barrel shotgun, pistol carbine, etc.)
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Old 06-19-2015, 01:08 PM   #114
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And everyone is a wonderful shot, amirite? Collateral.Damage.

Then you have 10 people firing guns, and maybe not everyone knows WHICH guy is the original shooter. Sound implausible? It's happened.
That actually happens much more frequently with police shootings. Collateral damage is much more rare with CCW holders.
Civilians tend to show more restraint.
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Old 06-19-2015, 01:20 PM   #115
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And everyone is a wonderful shot, amirite? Collateral.Damage.

Then you have 10 people firing guns, and maybe not everyone knows WHICH guy is the original shooter. Sound implausible? It's happened.
I can't believe you haven't be named supreme leader of USA yet; collectively it would be good for everyone.
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Old 06-19-2015, 01:38 PM   #116
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I can't believe you haven't be named supreme leader of USA yet; collectively it would be good for everyone.
The usefulness of your contributions to this conversation is fleeting.

Though, I'm surprised we've made it this far without outright accusations of Communism or *****, and for that, I thank you.
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Old 06-19-2015, 01:46 PM   #117
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A mass shooter is usually looking for an easy target, like a gun free zone. They want as many casualties as possible with the least resistance. Their fantasy ends when someone can return fire. Stop the gun free zones and mass shooters won't know if anyone is a threat. Kinda ruins the fantasy.

Anyways, i will tone it done. Had you presented your past experiences earlier, then we might be sympathetic to your views.
I don't completely disagree with you, frankly. I just think that too often we overlook what type of legislation change is actual useful for the safety of society as a whole, and instead stew in our own selfish interests. Everyone walking around with easily obtained guns might not be the answer, and in cases like this, you generally err on the side of caution (which for many is limiting access).

No need to tone it down. I can take a heated discussion, and everything that goes along with it. Sympathy isn't needed. I merely mention it to reinforce the point that whenever possible, we should speak from any applicable experience we actually have; not comparatively baseless assumptions, or hot air fed to us by our favorite cast of talking heads.

I'm going to turn up the Irony dial one more notch: I work for a company who holds multiple contracts with The Department of Defense and Lockheed Martin. Look up SBIRS, and I'm sure you're already familiar with the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. So before you write me off as Un-American (or too American depending on your interpretation), consider my very direct role in the safety and defense of our country.
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Old 06-19-2015, 01:50 PM   #118
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Though, I'm surprised we've made it this far without outright accusations of Communism or *****, and for that, I thank you.
we don't need to point out the obvious.
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Old 06-19-2015, 09:12 PM   #119
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Default Big gun-rights win in TEXAS... Open Carry and Campus Carry

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Old 06-20-2015, 06:15 PM   #120
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I stand by the statement, in the sense that open carry for many is a macho, dick measuring contest. Though admittedly, maybe I should've eased into the conversation. In my defense, I never saw much subtlety on the board, and at least we all know where we stand now.
Nothing wrong with open carry. Your opinion is based on your narrow experience with only yourself.

I open carry on occasion. Why? I live in Arizona - it is 118 degrees today. It is much easier, cooler, and safer for my weapon (sweat) to carry open on a day like today.

I also like to carry a full sized handgun. Not because I feel "bigger is more macho" - but because that is what I am most comfortable and most accurate with. I am also tall/thin. Concealed is uncomfortable for me - even though I mainly carry this way. In a high stress situation I find that for me - a larger handgun is easier to manipulate, control, and fire accurately so I just deal with the comfort issue.

I conceal carry 90% of the time. But if it is hot outside, and I am going to all gun-friendly establishments - I have no issue open carrying. The "it is for image or small man syndrome" statements don't apply, and is quite frankly a poor stance to argue your own opinions regarding open carry. What works for some, doesn't work for others.

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That actually happens much more frequently with police shootings. Collateral damage is much more rare with CCW holders.
Civilians tend to show more restraint.
Enthusiasts (at least in my neck of the woods) seem to have more training, more range time, more pride, and more practice than the local law enforcement.
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