The Current Events, News, and Politics Thread
04-27-2021, 11:04 AM
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Anyone who needs Healthcare gets it. The lie that they don't is ******* stupid. The rich have insurance and the poor have Medicare/Medicaid or just don't pay the bill. The middle gets raped by over inflated prices until they're poor enough for the poor people methods.
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04-27-2021, 11:17 AM
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Sounds pretty broken to me.
I had a coworker who's husband owned his own business. I think it had something to do with hauling gravel around or something, just to really drive home the humble working class nature of this. They both worked hard to save up money (roughly 1 million dollars) so that she could have a baby, and she wouldnt have to work for a long while and could raise the kid.
Unfortunately, her child was born very sick, and they spent the entire million and then some trying to keep him alive, only for him to pass away within his first few weeks of life.
She had another, healthy baby, later. But, she was having to working 60 hours a week with me, instead of taking care of her kid like they worked so hard to. Surprisingly she had a very optimistic attitude in general.
Thats my anecdotal story for today. It turns out you can try to pull yourself up by your boot straps, but it doesnt matter if the system is designed to **** you.
I had a coworker who's husband owned his own business. I think it had something to do with hauling gravel around or something, just to really drive home the humble working class nature of this. They both worked hard to save up money (roughly 1 million dollars) so that she could have a baby, and she wouldnt have to work for a long while and could raise the kid.
Unfortunately, her child was born very sick, and they spent the entire million and then some trying to keep him alive, only for him to pass away within his first few weeks of life.
She had another, healthy baby, later. But, she was having to working 60 hours a week with me, instead of taking care of her kid like they worked so hard to. Surprisingly she had a very optimistic attitude in general.
Thats my anecdotal story for today. It turns out you can try to pull yourself up by your boot straps, but it doesnt matter if the system is designed to **** you.
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04-27-2021, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie
Thank you for the anecdotal story of one person.
So, who should be responsible for their million dollar medical bill? Do heath care professionals get to be "wage slaves" because their labor serves a "need"?
The only thing actually preventing 'society' from improving is leftist/statists and their ongoing detatchment from reality.
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04-27-2021, 11:56 AM
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No, it's payment for a service mutually agreed upon by the consumer of the service and the provider.
Calling loan interest theft is no different from calling charging money for auto repair theft. In both cases, a service is provided for a payment, and in both cases, providing that service requires the investment of capital.
Calling loan interest theft is no different from calling charging money for auto repair theft. In both cases, a service is provided for a payment, and in both cases, providing that service requires the investment of capital.
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04-27-2021, 12:35 PM
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the Atlantic stopped tracking COVID stats under Biden too...
WASHINGTON POST TO END ITS PRESIDENTIAL FACT-CHECKER UNDER BIDEN
by Kevin Ryan
The Washington Post is ending its presidential fact-checking database just three months into Joe Biden’s Presidency, after running it non-stop during Donald Trump’s four years in office, checking “every suspicious claim”.
The editor of the database, Glenn Kessler, announced last night that “we do not plan to extend beyond 100 days” of Biden’s term.
The Post began “The Fact Checker” less than a month into President Trump’s tenure, and maintained it for his entire term, tracking “every suspicious claim made by the president.”
Yet, just three months into a Democratic presidency, Kessler claims it’s too much work.
“I have learned my lesson.”
The Fact Checker database, which rates claims on a scale of one-to-four “Pinocchios”, tracked 30,573 “false or misleading claims” from Trump while he was in office, or about 20 per day. Kessler says it required about 400 additional 8-hour days from his 3-person staff to keep up with the work load.
Yet he also points out that there is far less work under Biden, who The Post Fact Checker database says has “only” made 67 false or misleading statements during his first 100 days. That’s less than 1 per day. At that lower rate, Kessler’s staff would have twenty times less work to do to keep the database going during Biden’s administration.
Kessler even describes why there would be far less work to do under Biden. “Biden’s relatively limited number of falsehoods is a function, at least in part, of the fact that his public appearances consist mostly of prepared texts vetted by his staff,” Kessler said. “He devotes little time to social media, in contrast to his Twitter-obsessed predecessor, and rarely faces reporters or speaks off the cuff.”
So, if it’s not the overwhelming workload that’s forcing The Washington Post to end its Fact Checker under Biden, than what is it?
Kessler also says “We will keep doing fact checks, just not a database.” Though, if he’s making the change because it was too much work, then clearly The Post plans to do far less work fact-checking Biden than it did Trump.
by Kevin Ryan
The Washington Post is ending its presidential fact-checking database just three months into Joe Biden’s Presidency, after running it non-stop during Donald Trump’s four years in office, checking “every suspicious claim”.
The editor of the database, Glenn Kessler, announced last night that “we do not plan to extend beyond 100 days” of Biden’s term.
The Post began “The Fact Checker” less than a month into President Trump’s tenure, and maintained it for his entire term, tracking “every suspicious claim made by the president.”
Yet, just three months into a Democratic presidency, Kessler claims it’s too much work.
“I have learned my lesson.”
The Fact Checker database, which rates claims on a scale of one-to-four “Pinocchios”, tracked 30,573 “false or misleading claims” from Trump while he was in office, or about 20 per day. Kessler says it required about 400 additional 8-hour days from his 3-person staff to keep up with the work load.
Yet he also points out that there is far less work under Biden, who The Post Fact Checker database says has “only” made 67 false or misleading statements during his first 100 days. That’s less than 1 per day. At that lower rate, Kessler’s staff would have twenty times less work to do to keep the database going during Biden’s administration.
Kessler even describes why there would be far less work to do under Biden. “Biden’s relatively limited number of falsehoods is a function, at least in part, of the fact that his public appearances consist mostly of prepared texts vetted by his staff,” Kessler said. “He devotes little time to social media, in contrast to his Twitter-obsessed predecessor, and rarely faces reporters or speaks off the cuff.”
So, if it’s not the overwhelming workload that’s forcing The Washington Post to end its Fact Checker under Biden, than what is it?
Kessler also says “We will keep doing fact checks, just not a database.” Though, if he’s making the change because it was too much work, then clearly The Post plans to do far less work fact-checking Biden than it did Trump.
Last edited by Braineack; 04-28-2021 at 08:46 AM.
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04-27-2021, 12:36 PM
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I dont really understand what youre trying to ask, though. Obviously, in our current system they were responsible for their medical bill, and many people who work in health care do so to keep themselves out of poverty. Im sure there are some people that came from wealthy families who do it because they like helping people, but thats most likely an extremely small percentage of workers.
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04-27-2021, 08:22 PM
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I've been doing what I do now for the last 16 years. I'm not about to get into every project I've done. The one person I pointed out does have earnings well above the average project owner I work for but this is also not his main home so he can spend more on a "let's go see my mother-in-law" home. This is not his family's main residence, it's a get away. BTW, I went there one time to check on an issue they were having on one of the showers and he had a bunch of his employees staying over. Seemed like a really nice guy. Oh, and imagine spending $78k a year on property taxes for a home you hardly use.
Honestly, you called something a highly respected economist said a fallacy and then proceeded with one of your own. What was I to argue?
No argument from me there. Telling people what they can make and how to spend it is not a solution. That's why I went with the commie comment. I don't like telling people how to live their lives and I don't expect people to tell me how to live mine.
I believe what I experience. Everything else is as you say, rhetoric.
Completely disagree with you; the rich are spending. I see it on a daily basis and all of the people that work for them have jobs because of it. And I have no idea what you mean by taking money away from everybody else. No one is stopping anyone from making more money but we all have our limitations. I'd like to make $300k a year. I'd be really happy with that. Best I've done is half of that. I've had the opportunity and never made it happen. Didn't want to put in the work. No one to blame but myself.
Let's just agree to disagree. You seem to know what's best for people and I'm perfectly content on living my own life without "help" from anyone else. IMO, you are just making broad generalizations about people. We are all individuals and all act differently in any number of situations. Personally I live in South Florida and have never had the desire to hoard food for winter since we have no winter. Obviously by this I mean that I have spent every dollar I have ever made. It may come to bite me in the *** one day but like all good God fearing people say, "when God closes a door, He opens a window." And I've flown out of many windows.
Although I will say one thing I don't like about capitalism and that's the stock market. More money made on speculation than I can dream of and I'll be damned if it ain't rigged. But what do I know, I'm just a plumber.
Also, I like how you skipped over my entire argument just to call me a jealous communist.
Im not offering a solution.
Its naive to believe in the rhetoric of the wealthiest people in the world.
As for your last comment, the rich are not spending. Theyre hoarding. On the short term it is a zero sum game, and by hoarding wealth for no reason, it is literally taking money away from everybody else.
The issue is that we, as a society, are not trying to optimize utility for society as a whole, but instead believing in this sort of deontological system in which it is alleged that utility is maximized by allowing everybody to act in their own self interest. If you can step back from the politics and just look at it as a utilitarian optimization problem, its clear that unregulated capitalism, in school of thought of Von Mises and the other Austrian economists, does not make sense. Trickle down economics is not real. The rational market is not real. The invisible hand is not real. What is real is the little part of every persons primordial brain that makes you want to hoard food for the winter. Without barriers to this behavior, people will act on this desire, even when it far exceeds what is logical for themselves or anybody.
Although I will say one thing I don't like about capitalism and that's the stock market. More money made on speculation than I can dream of and I'll be damned if it ain't rigged. But what do I know, I'm just a plumber.
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04-28-2021, 09:22 AM
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Rich people absolutely horde wealth. Thats what I mean when I say there is that primeval part of your brain that makes you want to save for the winter. I dont mean it literally, I mean that there is a drive that was programmed into us through evolution to take/collect/horde whatever you can because you may die if you dont. You see the same behavior in animals.
Altruism is also natural, but it does not create a positive feedback loop in the same way. People cant give so much that any one person or group will end up accumulating everything, but when it comes to greed and hording, that absolutely does happen.
When it comes to money, were talking about numbers that are so big that it is difficult to comprehend. When you see someone building a dream home for tens of millions of dollars, it seems like a huge sum of money, when it would be chump change to some people. Think about how nice a million dollar home is, now think that with a billion dollars you could have one thousand such homes. You could stay in a different million dollar house each week for 19 years.
All of these arguments for incentivizing business owners makes sense on a certain scale, the kind of scale that is obtainable through hard work. But, that is not what Im talking about.
I got my MBA from a University in the south, and took a lot of economics as electives because it interested me. Most of my professors were big time proponents of the Austrian school of economic though. These same professors would lament that Keynesian theory had become some prevalent, claiming that taxation and regulation would be the downfall of our country. So, I have a very good understanding of how the free-market economy is to work in theory. But, just like everybody loves to say, its just a theory.
I would actually really be interested to see such a system implemented as a case study. No regulation, no taxes, just anarcho-capitalism at work. I would expect horrible things, but who knows, maybe Im wrong and the corporate overlords would be benevolent.
I would argue that taxes are analogous. If you want to be a part of society, use the infrastructure, be protected, etc. you pay taxes. The only other option is to go live "off the grid", or be a hobo. The freedom to not pay taxes comes with that price. In the same way, the freedom to not engage in being a slave to capitalism, comes with the same price.
Altruism is also natural, but it does not create a positive feedback loop in the same way. People cant give so much that any one person or group will end up accumulating everything, but when it comes to greed and hording, that absolutely does happen.
When it comes to money, were talking about numbers that are so big that it is difficult to comprehend. When you see someone building a dream home for tens of millions of dollars, it seems like a huge sum of money, when it would be chump change to some people. Think about how nice a million dollar home is, now think that with a billion dollars you could have one thousand such homes. You could stay in a different million dollar house each week for 19 years.
All of these arguments for incentivizing business owners makes sense on a certain scale, the kind of scale that is obtainable through hard work. But, that is not what Im talking about.
I got my MBA from a University in the south, and took a lot of economics as electives because it interested me. Most of my professors were big time proponents of the Austrian school of economic though. These same professors would lament that Keynesian theory had become some prevalent, claiming that taxation and regulation would be the downfall of our country. So, I have a very good understanding of how the free-market economy is to work in theory. But, just like everybody loves to say, its just a theory.
I would actually really be interested to see such a system implemented as a case study. No regulation, no taxes, just anarcho-capitalism at work. I would expect horrible things, but who knows, maybe Im wrong and the corporate overlords would be benevolent.
I would argue that taxes are analogous. If you want to be a part of society, use the infrastructure, be protected, etc. you pay taxes. The only other option is to go live "off the grid", or be a hobo. The freedom to not pay taxes comes with that price. In the same way, the freedom to not engage in being a slave to capitalism, comes with the same price.
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04-28-2021, 09:49 AM
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Is there some other economic arrangement which you feel is "freer"?
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04-28-2021, 10:18 AM
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The best system would be the one in which utility is optimized for society as a whole, and I dont think that correlates directly with freedom. Total freedom would be anarchy, while no freedom would be totalitarianism. Based on history, both of those extremes are bad situations. Somewhere in there lies something close to an optimal setup, both for freedom and overall happiness/utility/whatever.
Just to be clear, Im not totally anti-capitalism. Im just making the point that saying "All taxation is theft", with the implication that taxation is inherently a bad thing, is ridiculous. Im pointing out the hypocrisy in thinking this way, without simultaneously being critical of capitalism. I know "wage slave" is a buzz word, bound to trigger lots of people, but its a good description of how many people live under capitalism. You have to participate in this system to feed and house yourself, to get medicine and healthcare, and to be accepted in society.
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04-28-2021, 11:38 AM
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What human civilization has done is produce systems which enable individuals to specialize, to do a single kind of work, acquiring skills and tools which enable them to work more efficiently at that single task thereby amplifying their productivity. And then to create markets which allow the value of that one work product to be exchanged for a variety of others.
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