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10-03-2017, 09:12 AM
#9541
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Back to guns:
Seattle gun tax failure? Firearm sales plummet, violence spikes after law passes | Fox News
When the City of Seattle passed a tax on all sales of guns and ammunition, the measure was hailed as a way to defray the rising costs of gun violence. But since the tax took effect, those costs have only risen as gun violence in the city has surged. And the tax has apparently brought in much less than city leaders projected it would.
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In selling his gun tax to the public, Burgess predicted it would generate between $300,000 and $500,000 annually. The money would be used to study the root causes of gun violence in hopes of reducing the costs to taxpayers.
But Mike Coombs, owner of Outdoor Emporium, the last large gun dealer left in Seattle, said the actual tax revenue is almost certainly just over $100,000, a figure based on information he says the city shared with his lawyers.
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Dave Workman doesn’t criticize the study, but he does think the city council should have predicted the results of the gun tax, such as gun dealers leaving with no drop in gun ownership. As for the gun violence, he says that too should not surprise anyone.
“All these gun control laws affect the wrong people,” Workman said. “The gang bangers don’t go in and buy ammunition at retail, at least not around here. It certainly hasn’t stopped them from getting their hands on firearms.”
...
In selling his gun tax to the public, Burgess predicted it would generate between $300,000 and $500,000 annually. The money would be used to study the root causes of gun violence in hopes of reducing the costs to taxpayers.
But Mike Coombs, owner of Outdoor Emporium, the last large gun dealer left in Seattle, said the actual tax revenue is almost certainly just over $100,000, a figure based on information he says the city shared with his lawyers.
...
Dave Workman doesn’t criticize the study, but he does think the city council should have predicted the results of the gun tax, such as gun dealers leaving with no drop in gun ownership. As for the gun violence, he says that too should not surprise anyone.
“All these gun control laws affect the wrong people,” Workman said. “The gang bangers don’t go in and buy ammunition at retail, at least not around here. It certainly hasn’t stopped them from getting their hands on firearms.”
The measure easily passed and took effect January 1, 2016. Comparing the first five months of 2017 with the same period before the gun tax went into effect, reports of shots fired are up 13 percent, the number of people injured in shootings climbed 37 percent and gun deaths doubled, according to crime statistics from the Seattle Police Department.
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10-03-2017, 09:17 AM
#9542
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As a Jew, she has an interesting lack of perspective on the mass murder of innocents and the demonizing of other groups of people. She's not much of a student of history, I presume.
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10-03-2017, 11:55 AM
#9544
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since the shooter, apparently, was using illegal weapons, the left can't really blame gun laws, so...
The Professor, who previously has tweeted “all I want for Christmas is white genocide,” has blamed the Vegas massacre on men and white people.
George Ciccariello, a professor of politics at Drexel University, has claimed in a tweet that the mass shooting in Las Vegas was caused by white people and men.
According to Ciccariello, a “narrative of white victimization” led to the deaths of almost 60 people and the wounds over 500 in the deadliest mass shooting in US history.
“White people and men are told that they are entitled to everything,” he tweeted. “This is what happens when they don’t get what they want.”
George Ciccariello, a professor of politics at Drexel University, has claimed in a tweet that the mass shooting in Las Vegas was caused by white people and men.
According to Ciccariello, a “narrative of white victimization” led to the deaths of almost 60 people and the wounds over 500 in the deadliest mass shooting in US history.
“White people and men are told that they are entitled to everything,” he tweeted. “This is what happens when they don’t get what they want.”
It's the white supremacist patriarchy, stupid.
But liberals will drown out all discourse with a deafening chorus screeching "gun control."
To believe that someone who would shoot down 50 people wouldn't circumvent any gun law you pass is the height of delusion.
But liberal escapism means talking about easy questions and proposing easy non-solutions rather than talking about who kills and why.
White people and men are told that they are entitled to everything. This is what happens when they don't get what they want.
The narrative of white victimization has been gradually built over the past 40 years.
It is the spinal column of Trumpism, and most extreme form is the white genocide myth.
Yesterday was a morbid symptom of what happens when those who believe they deserve to own the world also think it is being stolen from them.
But liberals will drown out all discourse with a deafening chorus screeching "gun control."
To believe that someone who would shoot down 50 people wouldn't circumvent any gun law you pass is the height of delusion.
But liberal escapism means talking about easy questions and proposing easy non-solutions rather than talking about who kills and why.
White people and men are told that they are entitled to everything. This is what happens when they don't get what they want.
The narrative of white victimization has been gradually built over the past 40 years.
It is the spinal column of Trumpism, and most extreme form is the white genocide myth.
Yesterday was a morbid symptom of what happens when those who believe they deserve to own the world also think it is being stolen from them.
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10-03-2017, 12:05 PM
#9545
Close! I was suggesting that you be part of the solution. I would not suggest that it is your (gun owners') sole responsibility to find a (some part of the) solution.
Identifying things that won't work, have difficulties, etc is a cop out. You have to get real. You have to confront the issues head on, and look for ways of making improvements. It will require imagination, risk taking, a willingness to innovate. It is almost inconceivable that there is a single magic bullet (sorry) out there that will solve it. But there are probably dozens of things that can be used to chip away at it. The analogy with road deaths is probably a good one, where over decades the toll has come down due to a massive range of interventions - but we still have cars.
Identifying things that won't work, have difficulties, etc is a cop out. You have to get real. You have to confront the issues head on, and look for ways of making improvements. It will require imagination, risk taking, a willingness to innovate. It is almost inconceivable that there is a single magic bullet (sorry) out there that will solve it. But there are probably dozens of things that can be used to chip away at it. The analogy with road deaths is probably a good one, where over decades the toll has come down due to a massive range of interventions - but we still have cars.
Anything else is not going to be effective thus why give away rights for something that isn't going to work? It's a stalemate I guess.
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10-03-2017, 12:22 PM
#9546
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Originally Posted by Brainey & George
It's the white supremacist patriarchy, stupid.
But liberals will drown out all discourse with a deafening chorus screeching "gun control."
To believe that someone who would shoot down 50 people wouldn't circumvent any gun law you pass is the height of delusion.
But liberal escapism means talking about easy questions and proposing easy non-solutions rather than talking about who kills and why.
White people and men are told that they are entitled to everything. This is what happens when they don't get what they want.
The narrative of white victimization has been gradually built over the past 40 years.
It is the spinal column of Trumpism, and most extreme form is the white genocide myth.
Yesterday was a morbid symptom of what happens when those who believe they deserve to own the world also think it is being stolen from them.
But liberals will drown out all discourse with a deafening chorus screeching "gun control."
To believe that someone who would shoot down 50 people wouldn't circumvent any gun law you pass is the height of delusion.
But liberal escapism means talking about easy questions and proposing easy non-solutions rather than talking about who kills and why.
White people and men are told that they are entitled to everything. This is what happens when they don't get what they want.
The narrative of white victimization has been gradually built over the past 40 years.
It is the spinal column of Trumpism, and most extreme form is the white genocide myth.
Yesterday was a morbid symptom of what happens when those who believe they deserve to own the world also think it is being stolen from them.
Asking seriously, as I can't quite make sense of it:
What is meant by "The narrative of white victimization" in the context of the above?
Is the speaker claiming that white lives matter, and society needs to recognize that?
Or that whites are actually NOT victims, and that it's time for them to stop thinking that they are? (Sidebar: I'm fairly whitish, and don't really consider myself a victim.)
Or is this saying that we don't need stronger gun control laws, but need to address the root causes of white victimization or the perception thereof?
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10-03-2017, 12:27 PM
#9547
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That is the thing though. We know the solution that works 100%. Complete and utter prohibition and confiscation of firearms. And, that solution is not acceptable to us.
Anything else is not going to be effective thus why give away rights for something that isn't going to work? It's a stalemate I guess.
Anything else is not going to be effective thus why give away rights for something that isn't going to work? It's a stalemate I guess.
I feel like there's something else that's been 100% prohibited and confiscated...what could it be...oh yes, drugs! Heroin is illegal everywhere, right? When I was in high school, they found a 17 year old girl with heroin at the senior retreat...IN A CHURCH. How is that possible? Heroin is illegal!! Maybe if they make it even MORE illegal, then little girls won't be able to get it whenever they want.
Or what about the Prohibition? That worked really well...and no one ever drank alcohol again! Yay!
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10-03-2017, 12:39 PM
#9548
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How's that whole gun ban working out for the UK? Oh that's right their asking for your ******* chef's knifes now too. All the while people are getting run over by trucks and burnt by acid. Seems like the tools used isn't the issue.
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10-03-2017, 12:42 PM
#9549
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Actually, I was just talking with some co-workers from the UK a few weeks ago, and they were saying that the gangs still have guns, and people get shot in London on a regular basis. Meanwhile, a law abiding citizen who shoots someone who has broken into his house goes to jail. These are people who were born and raised in London.
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10-03-2017, 12:49 PM
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When I went to Scotland 14 years ago, they had these letter openers (~8" long) shaped like basket hilt swords. They were in all the tourist trap shops. But, I had already gotten some souvenirs, so I passed.
This time when I went to Scotland, I looked and looked for them. None to be found. I remember specifically seeing them in one shop near the castle, so I asked the clerk. They were classified as weapons, and had to be pulled from the shelves. WTF? A letter opener? That's just as retarded as nail clippers being confiscated from airline passengers. How many crimes are committed by letter opener wielding maniacs? This is the kind of stupid **** our so-called leaders pull when they have no idea what the solutions are.
This time when I went to Scotland, I looked and looked for them. None to be found. I remember specifically seeing them in one shop near the castle, so I asked the clerk. They were classified as weapons, and had to be pulled from the shelves. WTF? A letter opener? That's just as retarded as nail clippers being confiscated from airline passengers. How many crimes are committed by letter opener wielding maniacs? This is the kind of stupid **** our so-called leaders pull when they have no idea what the solutions are.
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10-03-2017, 12:49 PM
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Yeah I maintain culture is more of an indicator of violence then anything else. Makes sense the ideals you subscribe to tend to influence your behavior. People who work, contribute and participate in the community are not commiting crimes. People who have no interest in the culture of that community have no issues doing those people harm. Kinda hard to not see that while being honest.
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10-03-2017, 12:58 PM
#9552
Europe is so far into this catch-22 style regulation they are screwed in the long term, like Engi-ninja says; people are getting locked up for defending themselves from violent criminals and being put in jail while the violent person is being treated as a "victim of a racist society." Read about a girl in Sweden the other week who was walking home near a "refugee" camp and was attacked by a man and luckily she was able to fight him off with pepper spray she was carrying...well guess what pepper spray is illegal in Sweden so she has to go to jail. I guess she should just have been raped and then complained about it afterwards?
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10-03-2017, 01:03 PM
#9553
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Four.
Serious answer, actually. Assuming that a box-opener and a letter-opener are functionally similar. 2,977 dead, including Steve Jacobson, who would have been my employee if I'd have started work at WPIX 13 years earlier.
This is an un-winnable argument, and a ludicrous policy. The list of everyday objects which can be weaponized is nearly endless. In sufficiently skilled hands, I have no doubt that a toothpick could be a lethal weapon. And I'm fairly confident that I could kill even a trained opponent using the contents of my toolchest.
One interesting line of questioning is that of scale and proportionality.
A screwdriver could easily be used as a lethal weapon. On balance, though, the utility of screwdrivers as objects of constructive work massively outweighs their potential for lethality. And even the most highly skilled assailant (think Seals / SAS / Rangers / Delta / Shayetet 13 / MARSOC) would find it difficult to kill dozens of people, at a range of hundreds of yards, with a screwdriver. I'm not saying that Chuck Norris couldn't do it, merely that it would be outside of the ability of most people.
[devil's advocate]
It is not entirely unreasonable to inquire as to the constructive purpose of firearms as a whole in the context of non-military applications. (We shall presume for the purposes of this inquiry that modern livestock farming techniques are a thing that exist, and that we do not have to hunt as a means of sustenance.)
[/devil's advocate]
Serious answer, actually. Assuming that a box-opener and a letter-opener are functionally similar. 2,977 dead, including Steve Jacobson, who would have been my employee if I'd have started work at WPIX 13 years earlier.
This is an un-winnable argument, and a ludicrous policy. The list of everyday objects which can be weaponized is nearly endless. In sufficiently skilled hands, I have no doubt that a toothpick could be a lethal weapon. And I'm fairly confident that I could kill even a trained opponent using the contents of my toolchest.
One interesting line of questioning is that of scale and proportionality.
A screwdriver could easily be used as a lethal weapon. On balance, though, the utility of screwdrivers as objects of constructive work massively outweighs their potential for lethality. And even the most highly skilled assailant (think Seals / SAS / Rangers / Delta / Shayetet 13 / MARSOC) would find it difficult to kill dozens of people, at a range of hundreds of yards, with a screwdriver. I'm not saying that Chuck Norris couldn't do it, merely that it would be outside of the ability of most people.
[devil's advocate]
It is not entirely unreasonable to inquire as to the constructive purpose of firearms as a whole in the context of non-military applications. (We shall presume for the purposes of this inquiry that modern livestock farming techniques are a thing that exist, and that we do not have to hunt as a means of sustenance.)
[/devil's advocate]
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10-03-2017, 02:06 PM
#9558
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The reality is, the government CANNOT stop psychopaths from misusing inanimate objects to hurt/kill people. No matter what you do, if a crazy person wants to kill people, he will find a way to do it. You can make pipe bombs from things that can be bought in a department store. Making laws that do not apply to criminals (since, by definition, they don't obey the law), only succeeds in taking away ordinary citizen's ability to at least have a fighting chance when some nut-job decides to try to kill him.
Again, if you can't keep heroin out of the hands of teenage girls at an expensive, private, blue ribbon high school, how the hell are you going to keep guns out of the hands of crazy/evil people?
Again, if you can't keep heroin out of the hands of teenage girls at an expensive, private, blue ribbon high school, how the hell are you going to keep guns out of the hands of crazy/evil people?
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10-03-2017, 02:12 PM
#9559
Hey vitamin J >> the article is about denmark, also, it's only from what I can find, published on homepages / "news outlets" owned and run by former *****. Wouldn't consider those a source. Smells a lot like modern fiction.
Also, the US has the most guns, and most shootings. Australia has been mentioned above, they fixed the problem.
An AR-15 is a bit more deadly than a chefs knife.
Where I live (county), we have about the same gun per capita as Texas. However, we have just about no gun violence, mainly due to that all guns are registered hunting / target shooting guns. Now, they are not AR-15's, and in case of a zombie apocalypse / russian invasion, that might be a problem. But I'd like to see bobby redneck hold off a mechanized spetsnaz company regardless of armament.. Yup, criminals have guns here as well, ranging from 22's to ak-47's, but they are fewer, and mass shootings in Sweden are very rare things.
Local gun laws in chicago, yeah, cant you just drive for a couple of hours, buy what you want and drive back? I would think that gun laws would have to be national to have any kind of effect.
Edit, I'll go on with this.
The second amendment, from my point of view, would make it easier for the leaders of the country to quickly scramble an armed militia. As they did during the American revolution. but then, nowadays the US army equips its soldiers, you really do not need to bring your own gun. So are you interpreting it as "in case of dictatorship, we need to be able to go to war against our own army"? It sounds like a really tough fight to win. So then, do the local shooting club count as a militia? In that case, what would its use be to the state or people seing as it is regulated in the constitution?
Also, the US has the most guns, and most shootings. Australia has been mentioned above, they fixed the problem.
An AR-15 is a bit more deadly than a chefs knife.
Where I live (county), we have about the same gun per capita as Texas. However, we have just about no gun violence, mainly due to that all guns are registered hunting / target shooting guns. Now, they are not AR-15's, and in case of a zombie apocalypse / russian invasion, that might be a problem. But I'd like to see bobby redneck hold off a mechanized spetsnaz company regardless of armament.. Yup, criminals have guns here as well, ranging from 22's to ak-47's, but they are fewer, and mass shootings in Sweden are very rare things.
Local gun laws in chicago, yeah, cant you just drive for a couple of hours, buy what you want and drive back? I would think that gun laws would have to be national to have any kind of effect.
Edit, I'll go on with this.
The second amendment, from my point of view, would make it easier for the leaders of the country to quickly scramble an armed militia. As they did during the American revolution. but then, nowadays the US army equips its soldiers, you really do not need to bring your own gun. So are you interpreting it as "in case of dictatorship, we need to be able to go to war against our own army"? It sounds like a really tough fight to win. So then, do the local shooting club count as a militia? In that case, what would its use be to the state or people seing as it is regulated in the constitution?
Last edited by Sentic; 10-03-2017 at 02:31 PM.
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10-03-2017, 02:18 PM
#9560
Really? Is there any historical evidence that this solution has ever worked anywhere?
I feel like there's something else that's been 100% prohibited and confiscated...what could it be...oh yes, drugs! Heroin is illegal everywhere, right? When I was in high school, they found a 17 year old girl with heroin at the senior retreat...IN A CHURCH. How is that possible? Heroin is illegal!! Maybe if they make it even MORE illegal, then little girls won't be able to get it whenever they want.
Or what about the Prohibition? That worked really well...and no one ever drank alcohol again! Yay!
I feel like there's something else that's been 100% prohibited and confiscated...what could it be...oh yes, drugs! Heroin is illegal everywhere, right? When I was in high school, they found a 17 year old girl with heroin at the senior retreat...IN A CHURCH. How is that possible? Heroin is illegal!! Maybe if they make it even MORE illegal, then little girls won't be able to get it whenever they want.
Or what about the Prohibition? That worked really well...and no one ever drank alcohol again! Yay!
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