Current Events, News, Politics Keep the politics here.

The Current Events, News, and Politics Thread

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 01-31-2020, 10:41 PM
  #16801  
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago. (The less-murder part.)
Posts: 33,046
Total Cats: 6,607
Default

Originally Posted by triple88a
So can all criminals choose who testifies in their trial?
No, only the ones with executive privilege.

I'd have thought that most Americans would be familiar with this concept.
Joe Perez is offline  
Old 02-01-2020, 09:41 AM
  #16802  
Boost Czar
Thread Starter
iTrader: (62)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 79,501
Total Cats: 4,080
Default

The Senate is not a criminal courtroom.

The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.

Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.
The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed.
Stop acting like this is a standard criminal trial. and stop acting like this isn't solely kabuki theater.





Even if Bolton would testify that Trump specifically told him he was going to withhold money until he gets the investigation:
  1. It's not an impeachable offense.
    1. Four Democratic Senators wrote a letter to Ukraine threaten them to cooperate with Mueller in 2018.
    2. VP Biden had a prosecutor in Ukraine fired, by threatening billions, in order to protect his money-funneling son.
    3. It doesn't rise to the level of impeachment -- only Orange Man Bad.
  2. Neither is Contempt of Congress for going to the courts.
    1. Bill Clinton Impeachment.
  3. It doesn't prove he was doing it for, and again, I have to quote the actual articles, "corruptly pressuring Ukraine into announcing a investigation for the purpose of harming the election prospects of a political opponent, thus undermining the integrity of the democratic process."
    1. Remember the don't care that Trump asked about Crowdstrike, they care he asked about the Bidens -- so their whole issue and premise is interference in the 2020 election.
    2. They wrote the impeachment articles, they added these levels of burden, not me.
  4. Burisma was already being investigated by the Ukraine.
  5. The announcement never happened.
  6. Ukraine has said they weren't pressured -- multiple times.
  7. Democrats had 18 witnesses, one secret, and not one could provide a shred of evidence that proves the case the House moved forward to the Senate.
    1. You can't then cry foul when the failure was on yourself

I'm going out on a limb and saying you didn't spend 18mins watching the video I posted.

Last edited by Braineack; 02-01-2020 at 10:40 AM.
Braineack is offline  
Old 02-01-2020, 04:06 PM
  #16803  
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
triple88a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 10,455
Total Cats: 1,799
Default

Republicans when the shoe is on the other foot.

triple88a is offline  
Old 02-01-2020, 07:51 PM
  #16804  
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
triple88a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 10,455
Total Cats: 1,799
Default

triple88a is offline  
Old 02-01-2020, 08:16 PM
  #16805  
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago. (The less-murder part.)
Posts: 33,046
Total Cats: 6,607
Default

Originally Posted by triple88a
Republicans when the shoe is on the other foot.
Republicans wholeheartedly support and defend the Constitution, and the founding principles of American democracy, against the spears and arrows of those corrupt attackers who would seek to undermine them.

Except when said principles pose a threat to a sitting Republican President.

In that case, it's all fake news and lies.

******* democrats and the mainstream media who they've co-opted...


Joe Perez is offline  
Old 02-02-2020, 12:18 AM
  #16806  
Boost Czar
Thread Starter
iTrader: (62)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 79,501
Total Cats: 4,080
Default

One branch isn't more powerful than the other.

This was addressed in #2 above. But I can compound:
  1. the president is privy to executive privilege, and he utilized it after the doj legal council said he could.
  2. It is well established that Congress can not compel presidential advisors to testify about their duties.
  3. Congress refused to let these advisors have council during the testimonies.
  4. Asserting legal defense is not obstruction.
    1. This same thing happened during the Clinton impeachment and Jerry nadler agreed to this notion in 1998. So tell me more about Graham.
  5. Defense of separation of powers is not obstruction.
    1. The house does not get to decide it's own authority.
    2. Congress could always threaten every president with impeachment so long as they control house.
  6. It's still not a high crime or misdemeanor, it's not an impeachable offense. It's not even obstruction of Congress is you look at the case law.

​​

Lindsey Graham is a never Trumper, don't forget that.


Keep trying bro. Serious question: do you actually know what's going on? Like do you actually believe democrats are being righteous and honest during all this?

Last edited by Braineack; 02-02-2020 at 12:39 PM.
Braineack is offline  
Old 02-02-2020, 08:09 AM
  #16807  
Senior Member
 
poormxdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,204
Total Cats: 98
Default

I believe it is disingenuous, at best, to claim the dems did not have witnesses or evidence in the senate.

They've been collecting evidence on Trump since before he was inaugurated. They had three hearings, one of which was held in secret and no republicans participated. They collected video testimony from multiple "witnesses". Their evidentiary record was not enough to change the mind of a single republican member of the house. They even had a couple of dems vote with the republicans. And yet, because they had the votes, the President was impeached anyway.
Pelosi held onto the articles of impeachment for 33 days so the house managers could put together their audio/video extravaganza. In it, they provided a summation of pertinent testimony and evidence that lead to the impeachment. In fact, they cherry-picked various clips from witnesses without showing the cross examination that took place by the republicans, where some of their arguments went down in flames.
The house hearings and the evidentiary presentation by the house managers to the senate were a sham, in my opinion. If the dems needed more evidence and testimony, then the President should not have been impeached in the first place. The dems were under no specific impeachment timeline to get things done. They could have investigated and subpoenaed in perpetuity until they had enough evidence to have a bipartisan impeachment in the house. They chose not to do so.
The senate heard their evidentiary summation, which included video from their witnesses, and found it lacking. They don't get a do over, but I'm sure they'll be back..
poormxdad is offline  
Old 02-02-2020, 09:37 AM
  #16808  
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago. (The less-murder part.)
Posts: 33,046
Total Cats: 6,607
Default

^ Well said.


In other news:


Joe Perez is offline  
Old 02-02-2020, 09:51 AM
  #16809  
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago. (The less-murder part.)
Posts: 33,046
Total Cats: 6,607
Default

Also, more relevant to the US:


Joe Perez is offline  
Old 02-02-2020, 10:00 AM
  #16810  
Boost Czar
Thread Starter
iTrader: (62)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 79,501
Total Cats: 4,080
Default

Originally Posted by poormxdad
I believe it is disingenuous, at best, to claim the dems did not have witnesses or evidence in the senate.

They've been collecting evidence on Trump since before he was inaugurated. They had three hearings, one of which was held in secret and no republicans participated. They collected video testimony from multiple "witnesses". Their evidentiary record was not enough to change the mind of a single republican member of the house. They even had a couple of dems vote with the republicans. And yet, because they had the votes, the President was impeached anyway.
Pelosi held onto the articles of impeachment for 33 days so the house managers could put together their audio/video extravaganza. In it, they provided a summation of pertinent testimony and evidence that lead to the impeachment. In fact, they cherry-picked various clips from witnesses without showing the cross examination that took place by the republicans, where some of their arguments went down in flames.
The house hearings and the evidentiary presentation by the house managers to the senate were a sham, in my opinion. If the dems needed more evidence and testimony, then the President should not have been impeached in the first place. The dems were under no specific impeachment timeline to get things done. They could have investigated and subpoenaed in perpetuity until they had enough evidence to have a bipartisan impeachment in the house. They chose not to do so.
The senate heard their evidentiary summation, which included video from their witnesses, and found it lacking. They don't get a do over, but I'm sure they'll be back..
You forgot to factor one point: orange man bad.
Braineack is offline  
Old 02-02-2020, 12:16 PM
  #16811  
Boost Czar
Thread Starter
iTrader: (62)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 79,501
Total Cats: 4,080
Default

Originally Posted by Joe Perez
Also, more relevant to the US:


why isn't impeachment in quotes?
Braineack is offline  
Old 02-02-2020, 03:19 PM
  #16812  
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago. (The less-murder part.)
Posts: 33,046
Total Cats: 6,607
Default

Originally Posted by Braineack
why isn't impeachment in quotes?
Why would it be?

Joe Perez is offline  
Old 02-02-2020, 03:33 PM
  #16813  
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
bahurd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,381
Total Cats: 314
Default

Anyone besides me remember when this idea was floated (no pun intended)?

Floating nuclear power plants
bahurd is offline  
Old 02-02-2020, 03:48 PM
  #16814  
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago. (The less-murder part.)
Posts: 33,046
Total Cats: 6,607
Default

Originally Posted by bahurd
Anyone besides me remember when this idea was floated (no pun intended)?

Floating nuclear power plants
Russia has been using this concept for a number of years, to supply power to remote coastal towns.

Despite their less-than-stellar reputation when it comes to naval nuclear propulsion, they've been working reliably.
Joe Perez is offline  
Old 02-02-2020, 05:03 PM
  #16815  
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
bahurd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,381
Total Cats: 314
Default

Originally Posted by Joe Perez
Russia has been using this concept for a number of years, to supply power to remote coastal towns.

Despite their less-than-stellar reputation when it comes to naval nuclear propulsion, they've been working reliably.
Not familiar with Russia doing it before this; Russia’s first floating nuclear power plant. According to the article, while it was “under construction” for 10 years it just went online in Dec 2019. Maybe the article is wrong. You know how the ‘fake news’ is... True, they’ve had their problems with naval reactors.
bahurd is offline  
Old 02-02-2020, 05:32 PM
  #16816  
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago. (The less-murder part.)
Posts: 33,046
Total Cats: 6,607
Default

Originally Posted by bahurd
Not familiar with Russia doing it before this; Russia’s first floating nuclear power plant. According to the article, while it was “under construction” for 10 years it just went online in Dec 2019. Maybe the article is wrong. You know how the ‘fake news’ is... True, they’ve had their problems with naval reactors.
Looks like you're right. They've been talking about it for quite a while, but this may be the first active, large-scale deployment.

13 year old Russian article (use Google Translate): https://vz.ru/news/2007/4/15/77501.html


The US was doing this in the 60s: https://www.usace.army.mil/Media/Ima...to/2001874451/
Joe Perez is offline  
Old 02-02-2020, 08:33 PM
  #16817  
Elite Member
iTrader: (7)
 
samnavy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: VaBch, VA
Posts: 6,451
Total Cats: 322
Default

Originally Posted by bahurd
Anyone besides me remember when this idea was floated (no pun intended)?

Floating nuclear power plants
Those are a fantasy, they'll never work...

samnavy is offline  
Old 02-03-2020, 12:36 PM
  #16818  
Retired Mech Design Engr
iTrader: (3)
 
DNMakinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Seneca, SC
Posts: 5,009
Total Cats: 857
Default


DNMakinson is offline  
Old 02-03-2020, 02:10 PM
  #16819  
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago. (The less-murder part.)
Posts: 33,046
Total Cats: 6,607
Default

Honestly, you'd think that someone within his cabinet would have taken away the President's access to Twitter by now.





For those who haven't seen it, here was the President's official congrats to some football people who score more points yesterday than some other football people:




Trouble is, Kansas City, Missouri is not in the state of Kansas. It's very close to Kansas, in much the same way that Palestine is very close to Israel.

Joe Perez is offline  
Old 02-03-2020, 02:31 PM
  #16820  
Elite Member
 
z31maniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: OKC, OK
Posts: 3,693
Total Cats: 222
Default

Honestly, I've seen a game at Royals stadium, but if you had asked me yesterday if the stadium is in Kansas or Missouri........I would have had a 50% chance of getting it right.

z31maniac is offline  


Quick Reply: The Current Events, News, and Politics Thread



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:02 AM.