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Art,
You are spending a lot of time around people who think like you.
If you spent more time around individuals who had more varied ideas you might learn to value diversity and be more tolerant. Try to think outside of your own experiences and give equal value to the perspectives of others. Take off the blinders and open your heart. Love your fellow man.
What six shooter said.
Your labeling others without cause and can't even make your case with a reasoned argument. Using your view point to attribute motives to others actions doesn't work. Canned buzzwords and vauge suppositions about a person's character doesn't cut it either.
Character attacks, stereotyping people you don't know and regurgitated baseless talking points show you have a very bigoted view of people you have no experience with.
Seek out arguments against what your proposing and listen to them so you can form better arguments for you case. Right now your bucket doesn't hold water.
Thanks sixshooter, that is solid advice. I appreciate it and I mean no disrespect to anyone. You might also say by spending time (here) is doing what you suggest, hearing people that think differently. As in, I came here originally for Miata turbos only but notice the political bent with most all the old timers here, also notice the political slant of some members with a hundred positive votes rather than negative, but I'll leave it at that no hard feelings. I have buddies from varied backgrounds but usually don't speak nearly as raw with opinions and stuff as on interwebs. That's a downside, and maybe an upside to online commentary.
This is a terrible thread for intelligent political conversation most of the time. There is a lot of **** posting and back patting in here because there is an overwhelmingly right leaning majority. For instance, I lean right usually but my views fall much closer to the middle and contain a lot more nuance. There are a lot of posts in here that I find way too black and white or lacking the same empathy and openness as was requested of you. Internet political discussions don't usually work that way because the nuance becomes very long winded. I would venture to guess that most people in here would come across less abrasive and more moderate in a real conversation. But I could be totally wrong too. Brain could **** post just as much in real conversation for all we know.
I think what many on both sides find really troubling is how far apart the views have drifted and how hard it is for people to discuss the differences. Many see their opponents as being on extreme reaches of the spectrum and unwilling to move closer to the center in order to come to some sort of agreement and understanding. My personal theory is that generations who remembered what real disagreement, propaganda and hysteria can lead to (WW2) with all the real horrors, and not just the minor BS hyped from TV screens as something important. People who have survived or seen the war, mass loss of human life, senseless deaths, knew the value of finding common ground and treating others as fellow human beings first. With every new generation further removed from those events people have less and less of this memory, understanding and desire to see a fellow countrymen, a neighbor, a coworker a potential friend. Instead it is "us vs them" where everyone is divided and labeled - republican or democrat, believer or atheist, city vs burbs vs countryside, small vs large government, etc. It is a sad state of public discourse and a dangerous one too.
I came from another country and this year I had to go back for a business trip. There is currently a war going on. So far around 10,000 civilians and several thousand servicemen have died just so politicians can score some points. My school-time friend can be called upon to go to the front lines at any moment, he has family - wife, daughter. I don't want him to die just because some ******* in a fancy chair thousands of miles away doesn't want to find common ground with another human being and thinks that arguments can be resolved by seeing who can kill more of their opponents.
I thought that was a weirdly specific timeline, so I looked at that meme a little closer.
Guess what happened at the beginning of that timeline.
Watergate.
The vast majority of those indictments are from that.
Note that one person can have multiple indictments and convictions, so the total number of wrongdoers is quite small.
Also, I'm not sure what exactly they are counting as the "executive branch", but it is certainly not indicative of the full extent of our governing body or our recent history.
Ever heard of Leland Lee for example?
I'm not taking the stance that conservative politicians are angels, but sources like that are clearly biased and should be met with scepticism at least.
By the way, can you guess which recent Presidential candidate was involved in Watergate?
Well I think you are right we can all debate argue and call each other names but we're still at the same table which is far better than violence. With any war there are usually some that either send people to fight or sit back and watch while others lose everything.
This is from reddit so kind of a blatant repost but what is this true?
TIL: when your perverted sex crimes against children gets out, claim gay and everything will be okay.
I'm pretty sure Kevin is now high enough on the victim hierarchy scale to be forgiven, maybe a little rehab for good measure. Think of all the great things he has given the world, surely that outweighs any mis steps or transgressions he may have in his personal life.
Tongue and cheek aside he deserves his day in an actual court and not the one of public opinion. Found guilty or if he admits to it he should be castrated or killed though. What does it say about a society that would let child rapists back out in to the world? Sorry but if that something your going do once your are done. Our women and children are the most precious things we can have in our life's and you don't allow them to be put in danger of you can help it.
Rehabilitation..what a joke, what kind of a transformation is a child molester going have?
I'm pretty sure Kevin is now high enough on the victim hierarchy scale to be forgiven, maybe a little rehab for good measure. Think of all the great things he has given the world, surely that outweighs any mis steps or transgressions he may have in his personal life.
you mean like that really shitty movie about having sex with his teenaged daughter's BFF?
sexual assault is the new reacism. the left has moved on from ***** and now is acting it's own sexually perverted kind.
And the left eats it's own....I would say it better writing then anything coming out of Hollywood of late, but you can't make this **** up.
And as far as it being the new "racism" I'm OK with that. We can identify the people and institutions perpetuating sexual abuse and that is key in fighting it. Now if as a whole society could recognize the ideology behind the systematic sexual abuse in Hollywood and apparently other institutions the country would be on a better course.
It should come as no surprise when I say it's obvious in life few situations are lacking any nuance to the point where it is straight black and white. Let me start with this. What do you do with someone who you know has raped, molested a child or has murdered someone? All three of those have a clear victim and a clear perpetrator.
Of antiquity in western civilization the answer to all three of these questions has been straight forward, simply there is no place in society for them and their actions are evil. They tended to be disposed of and justice was done. Seldom was that person put in a cell to live out their days, what was the point? Why feed a monster and provide protection from the elements at bare minimum.
What I'm saying is as a society everyone could agree on what was right and what was wrong, there was a consensus on what behavior was acceptable and what was not. And for the most part I think people today agree these are bad people, only now some want to keep these people alive in hopes they change or whatever. Point is all sane people can agree rape murder and molestation are bad, now some people think people can be redeemed from that.
What we can't seem to agree on today is standards for decent behavior. One person tells a off color joke and it's funny , someone else tells the same joke and that same person can say it's sexual harassment. It's the same behavior towards the same person yet one is a crime. Same thing with physical contact, you hand on the small of one persons back can be fine and someone else's on their back and it's a violation of that persons body. Now don't get me wrong there is intent and familiarity at play here for sure, what I am saying is there is no clear boundaries set here for social interaction. And that is where issues can and do arise.
Before I met my wife I was a partner in a brewery and distribution company in the SF bay Area. Aside from brewing(which face it is mostly just cleaning ****) I was also the accounts manager- read deliver beer and spend 7 days a week on accounts receivables - for the 120 odd something accounts we had with bars and restaurants in the City and around the Bay. I had tons of interaction with the customer base from owners to managers and staff. It was a very much go along to get along business. Meaning I had to deal with people I liked , folks I didn't and everyone in between. For the most part I didn't have issues but in a industry where people drink heavily, drugs are common place and people are vary forward with their intentions there were some funny and off putting moments. From my posts you might get the read I'm rather conservative, well to an extent yes I am. I value myself and have expectations of others I think are reasonable but don't necessarily believe people will act in that manner. I will say as a guy I didn't have an issue with flirting with some of the gals I interacted with. I didn't have issues with a couple gay guys who I made clear I had no interest in yet only doubled down like it was just a running joke, one even grabbed my junk. But I also never acted in a way where I gave up my integrity or acted like a scumbag to women. A big factor in all my dealing was this though... my livelihood was on the line when it can to everyone I delt with. That had an impact on my actions. So yeah that gal might be a cute bartender but is best buds with the manger. Don't **** where you eat right, especially if they can't carry on a meaningful conversation about anything. So I think there is a certain tight rope you can choose to walk where it is a very much no harm no foul in those situations. Still the behavior I saw before I sold the company wouldn't fly in the industry I am in now. Where is the line drawn? Personally I would say I draw by the people I choose to associate with personally, professionally is just that and I expect people to act as professionals.
A teen who acts inappropriate towards a another teen should have the same standard, we are bringing people up to be adults not children regardless if they are on a team. I caught a pat on the *** on team sports, it was never something sexual. Coaches or priests or anyone else in power who uses that position to act inappropriate towards a minor, yeah string that ****** up once verified. As a teacher of our youth they are held to a tough standard, one where you don't get to sexually assault children..crazy I know.
As far as adults who act inappropriately to other adults from a position of power I have to say it's two adults and if one doesn't like actions they need to stop them. Is that easy? Is it right? Is it the reality? You can't enforce morality through law, it's been shown time and time again. I guess thats where we come to the belief systems that society subscribes to as a whole and expects others to abide by. The Casting couch has been something that has been winked at by Hollywood for a long time and seemingly now it's a bad thing, well it's always been bad and many actors and actresses speaking out now refuse to name names. Why is this? Why protect these bad people? I would say it's the very reason they were on that casting couch to begin with, they have no integrity and they were doing what they thought they had to so they could get ahead.
One last thing. Who would be the arbiters of justice when it came to drawing the line for behavior? Is it even possible to legislate against people being scummy or does it need to be a case where people that act like **** get put in the spotlight and torn down in the public forum?
mity I can see your point and where you're coming from, but what about a guy that grabs women inappropriately or worse do you have the same sentiment for them?
Someone like Clinton?
or this sick sexual predator who makes women very uncomfortable:
I am a man. Six-foot-two, 200 lbs. Able-bodied, and physically fit. I move through the world with the privilege of never even considering the idea of being sexually assaulted or harassed. (Men are also sexually assaulted and raped, but the scale of those occurrences is dwarfed by scale of those problems for women.)
This is one of my male privileges, and I have to check it.
10-28-2017, 06:24 PM
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