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Old 08-30-2013, 02:40 PM   #61
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We're already subsidizing them with foodstamps and section 8 housing because they make $7.25.
So now we will just be picking up that $7.25 an hour for them. Solid logic.
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Old 08-30-2013, 02:42 PM   #62
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I'm curious, vitamin j and bbundy -- if we can actually improve the lives of these minimum wage workers by raising the minimum wage to $15 -- that is, forcing a higher minimum wage will actually make them wealthier -- why not raise it to $50?

If I believe your arguments, then why wouldn't I go further and push for a $50/hour minimum wage? Or $500/hour? Everyone can be rich.
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Old 08-30-2013, 02:46 PM   #63
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So you'd rather support them fully via tax benefits than partially via tax benefits and partially via an entry-level job that could lead to new opportunities (and allow them to support themselves fully down the road)?
I'd rather they make $15 an hour. I get an equivalent raise in my job, you get an equivalent raise in your job, and the CEO gets to break-even for 6 months instead of getting a new yacht, and maybe some of that USD stays in the country and doesn't end up in the Cayman Islands.

Sorry, but only 1% of the people making minimum wage flipping burgers will ever move up the ladder. This is a reality of our modern service based economy. The last time I was in a drive-thru, the lady serving me was in her 50s at least. She's stuck there until she dies, or gets too slow and they fire her and she needs benefits...
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Old 08-30-2013, 02:47 PM   #64
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I'm curious, vitamin j and bbundy -- if we can actually improve the lives of these minimum wage workers by raising the minimum wage to $15 -- that is, forcing a higher minimum wage will actually make them wealthier -- why not raise it to $50?

If I believe your arguments, then why wouldn't I go further and push for a $50/hour minimum wage? Or $500/hour? Everyone can be rich.
Because $15/hour is equivalent to what a burger flipper made in 1960 adjusting for inflation. Our economy was pretty good in 1960 so that would be a good start.
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Old 08-30-2013, 02:47 PM   #65
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I'd rather they make $15 an hour. I get an equivalent raise in my job, you get an equivalent raise in your job, and the CEO gets to break-even for 6 months instead of getting a new yacht, and maybe some of that USD stays in the country and doesn't end up in the Cayman Islands.

Sorry, but only 1% of the people making minimum wage flipping burgers will ever move up the ladder. This is a reality of our modern service based economy. The last time I was in a drive-thru, the lady serving me was in her 50s at least. She's stuck there until she dies, or gets too slow and they fire her and she needs benefits...


Please quote source.


I flipped burgers. I no longer flip burgers.


I AM THE 1%.
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Old 08-30-2013, 02:48 PM   #66
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I happen to work with a Chinese company in my day to day business and they pay their unskilled labor $.25 an hour.
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Old 08-30-2013, 02:49 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by vitamin j View Post
I'd rather they make $15 an hour. I get an equivalent raise in my job, you get an equivalent raise in your job, and the CEO gets to break-even for 6 months instead of getting a new yacht, and maybe some of that USD stays in the country and doesn't end up in the Cayman Islands.

Sorry, but only 1% of the people making minimum wage flipping burgers will ever move up the ladder. This is a reality of our modern service based economy. The last time I was in a drive-thru, the lady serving me was in her 50s at least. She's stuck there until she dies, or gets too slow and they fire her and she needs benefits...

No you won't. You think if they double minimum wage, your wage will double? That won't be government enforced.

If you make $15/hr now, and minimum wage goes to $15, you're still going to be making $15, same as the eggplant that just served you a burger.
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Old 08-30-2013, 02:50 PM   #68
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I happen to work with a Chinese company in my day to day business and they pay their unskilled labor $.25 an hour.

And goddamnit they make some GOOD **** for $2.50 a day, don't they!
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Old 08-30-2013, 02:51 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by vitamin j View Post
I'd rather they make $15 an hour. I get an equivalent raise in my job, you get an equivalent raise in your job, and the CEO gets to break-even for 6 months instead of getting a new yacht, and maybe some of that USD stays in the country and doesn't end up in the Cayman Islands.

Sorry, but only 1% of the people making minimum wage flipping burgers will ever move up the ladder. This is a reality of our modern service based economy. The last time I was in a drive-thru, the lady serving me was in her 50s at least. She's stuck there until she dies, or gets too slow and they fire her and she needs benefits...
You're killing me here man. My abs hurt from all the laughing. I love when people think that is how it works. Don't give me the argument that I should fight to be paid more instead of trying to keep others down. My wage was determined by the market and is correct.
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Old 08-30-2013, 02:55 PM   #70
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I happen to work with a Chinese company in my day to day business and they pay their unskilled labor $.25 an hour.
The Chinese government also pays for up to 90% of healthcare costs, and subsidize food, education, etc to a very high degree.

Sure you want to argue down that road?
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Old 08-30-2013, 02:57 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by vitamin j View Post
I'd rather they make $15 an hour. I get an equivalent raise in my job, you get an equivalent raise in your job, and the CEO gets to break-even for 6 months instead of getting a new yacht, and maybe some of that USD stays in the country and doesn't end up in the Cayman Islands.
But why only $15/hour? If we can just make people richer by changing the minimum wage, why not higher?

Quote:
Sorry, but only 1% of the people making minimum wage flipping burgers will ever move up the ladder. This is a reality of our modern service based economy. The last time I was in a drive-thru, the lady serving me was in her 50s at least. She's stuck there until she dies, or gets too slow and they fire her and she needs benefits...
That's completely untrue. The majority of minimum wage workers are under 25 and two-thirds of minimum wage workers receive a wage increase within a year of working the same job.

Characteristics of Minimum Wage Workers: 2011
http://www.epionline.org/studies/macpherson_06-2004.pdf
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Old 08-30-2013, 02:58 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Please quote source.


I flipped burgers. I no longer flip burgers.


I AM THE 1%.
Do it yourself next time:
http://nelp.3cdn.net/84a67b124db45841d4_o0m6bq42h.pdf
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Old 08-30-2013, 02:59 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by vitamin j View Post
The Chinese government also pays for up to 90% of healthcare costs, and subsidize food, education, etc to a very high degree.

Sure you want to argue down that road?

So you'd be ok with the quality of living you'd "enjoy" if you made $0.25/hr as long as 90% of your healthcare, food, and education was paid?

You seem easy to please.
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:01 PM   #74
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Oh you mean among morons dumb enough to stay within the same company?

That's the first rule of raises everywhere, and not just in fast food.

You want a big raise? Get a job somewhere else.


Derp.


You made it sound like once you took a job flipping burgers, you were stuck flipping burgers FOR LIFE.
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:02 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
But why only $15/hour? If we can just make people richer by changing the minimum wage, why not higher?
Because productivity and efficiency has increased about the same amount along with profits but the only thing that hasn't risen is the average wage and minimum wage.
Quote:
That's completely untrue. The majority of minimum wage workers are under 25 and two-thirds of minimum wage workers receive a wage increase within a year of working the same job.

Characteristics of Minimum Wage Workers: 2011
http://www.epionline.org/studies/macpherson_06-2004.pdf
I said "up the ladder" not going from under the poverty level to still under the poverty level with a .25 an hour raise. Please argue in good faith, you knew I was replying to someone who said fast food workers could one day be managers or something and earn a decent salary.
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:02 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Oh you mean among morons dumb enough to stay within the same company?

That's the first rule of raises everywhere, and not just in fast food.

You want a big raise? Get a job somewhere else.


Derp.


You made it sound like once you took a job flipping burgers, you were stuck flipping burgers FOR LIFE.
GET ANOTHER JOB LAZY BASTARD!!!!


*unemployment at 10%*
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:06 PM   #77
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The Chinese government also pays for up to 90% of healthcare costs, and subsidize food, education, etc to a very high degree.

Sure you want to argue down that road?
He stated a fact. He didn't make an argument. What I think is funny though is that you fail to realize that wages stay low because the government subsidizes necessities.

If people were forced to live solely on minimum wage with no assistance do you not think they would quickly organize and increase their own wages? Or do you think they would just sit back and starve to death? Maybe the employers would just let their whole workforce starve to death so now there is no one available to run their factories or buy their goods/services. That is totally how it would play out.

It is easy to keep people poor and ignorant if you keep them content and comfortable enough that they do not fight for more.
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:07 PM   #78
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Because productivity and efficiency has increased about the same amount along with profits but the only thing that hasn't risen is the average wage and minimum wage.
That's a non-answer.

If we can legislate wealth, why not make EVERYONE wealthier?

Quote:
I said "up the ladder" not going from under the poverty level to still under the poverty level with a .25 an hour raise. Please argue in good faith, you knew I was replying to someone who said fast food workers could one day be managers or something and earn a decent salary.
More bullshit. More than three-quarters of minimum wage workers are above the poverty line.

Who Earns the Minimum Wage? Suburban Teenagers, Not Single Parents
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:08 PM   #79
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I happen to work with a Chinese company in my day to day business and they pay their unskilled labor $.25 an hour.
Must be a wonderful country to live in because companies donít have to pay for unskilled labor.
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:11 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by vitamin j View Post
GET ANOTHER JOB LAZY BASTARD!!!!


*unemployment at 10%*

I'm really amused by just how badly you totally missed what i was talking about. Brilliant! Top marks!


My job is hiring for the 9th time this year. Each time it's 20-40 people. Entry level. You need a high school diploma or GED. That's it. $13/hr, incredible benefits, full time + overtime. Lots of upward mobility within the company.

Basically, if you're not an eggplant, you can get a job here.

If you were too stupid to get a diploma or GED, then i have no sympathy for you. You deserve to starve and be pissed on.
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