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Old 08-30-2013, 03:52 PM   #101
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So why did you post it? To prove me right? Those states in blue also, by large, have lower unemployment, better economies, and wealthier citizens than the ones in grey.
If you live in a state that pays more than the fed. min wage, than by default, there's going to be less workforce making the fed. min wage, since by default, they should be making more than.

This doesn't prove you right.


ths point is the amount of workforce that even gets paid the min. wage. It's a VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY small minority of workers that actually get paid min. wage.
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:52 PM   #102
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I know where someone who dropped out of elementary school could get a job paying $9 an hour, but it actually involves doing work so most of the people who work in fast food would not be interested.
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:52 PM   #103
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What state do you live in?
Doesn't matter. You go where the jobs are.


It's in the Midwest, either way. Which also happens to be cheap as **** to live in. I COULD live on today's minimum wage here.

Starting wage at my company gives you a damn decent life if you're good at budgeting at all.

I still don't make what i consider to be a lot of money, but if you knew the sheer amount of money i've sunk into my car projects, you'd probably **** yourself. (And then ask me why i don't have the fastest car in the ******* world.) It's all about marketing yourself and actually WORKING and proving your worth, and then living smart in an area within your means.

Between my wife and i, we're only paid an average of $15/hr. We can live like kings on that. If minimum wage goes to $15/hr, we'll both leave to go flip burgers, because easiest job ever and less hours, thanks.
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:52 PM   #104
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The last graph proves my point perfectly? States with higher than Federal min wage have less workers who make min wage than states that use the Federal min as standard.
No, the last graph proves nothing. The last graph shows that, in states where it is illegal to pay workers federal minimum wage because state minimum wage is higher, less employees are paid federal minimum wage.

Because it's ******* illegal.

Instead, they are paid state minimum wage.

Find a graph that shows the % of employees that are paid legal local minimum wage, and I would suggest that the highlighted states (those with higher state minimum wages) actually have a disproportionately *higher* % of employees making minimum wage.
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:55 PM   #105
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Min wage is $12 in San Francisco.

why isn't anyone getting paid $7.25?!
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:56 PM   #106
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I'm serious about this, by the way. Yes, it was a brilliantly pithy one-liner, but it was also an incisive rebuttal to the pro-minimum wage raisers.

vitamin j and bbundy -- do you support the legal right of companies to offer unpaid internships? Isn't this really just a loophole to circumvent minimum wage laws? How do you expect interns to live on $0 per hour?

No, I don't support unpaid internships, especially the version that has appeared in the last few years where the employers don't even have to give the interns educational work, and can simply use them to make photocopies all day.
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:57 PM   #107
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If you live in a state that pays more than the fed. min wage, than by default, there's going to be less workforce making the fed. min wage, since by default, they should be making more than.

This doesn't prove you right.


ths point is the amount of workforce that even gets paid the min. wage. It's a VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY small minority of workers that actually get paid min. wage.
It's up to 10% in Georgia. That's a large amount of the workforce.

Any comments on those states in blue being better places to live even though the higher min wage should lead to higher unemployment and lower revenue according to you?
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:57 PM   #108
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No, I don't support unpaid internships, especially the version that has appeared in the last few years where the employers don't even have to give the interns educational work, and can simply use them to make photocopies all day.
who's the fascist now?
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:59 PM   #109
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Doesn't matter. You go where the jobs are.


It's in the Midwest, either way. Which also happens to be cheap as **** to live in. I COULD live on today's minimum wage here.

Starting wage at my company gives you a damn decent life if you're good at budgeting at all.

I still don't make what i consider to be a lot of money, but if you knew the sheer amount of money i've sunk into my car projects, you'd probably **** yourself. (And then ask me why i don't have the fastest car in the ******* world.) It's all about marketing yourself and actually WORKING and proving your worth, and then living smart in an area within your means.

Between my wife and i, we're only paid an average of $15/hr. We can live like kings on that. If minimum wage goes to $15/hr, we'll both leave to go flip burgers, because easiest job ever and less hours, thanks.
It does matter because every state in this country is unique and all have very different costs of living and opportunities to eachother. I bet if you moved a few hours south you'd be fucked.

You should actually move to my state, we have a higher average wage than you. And a higher minimum wage. And better education.
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:00 PM   #110
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No, the last graph proves nothing. The last graph shows that, in states where it is illegal to pay workers federal minimum wage because state minimum wage is higher, less employees are paid federal minimum wage.

Because it's ******* illegal.

Instead, they are paid state minimum wage.
So next you're going to show how those states with higher min wage are actually economic black holes that swallow prosperity whole?
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:01 PM   #111
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who's the fascist now?
Students can do whatever they want and reach any agreement they want with an employer. An "Unpaid Internship" is a very specific thing where they trade working for school credit.
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:02 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by vitamin j View Post
It does matter because every state in this country is unique and all have very different costs of living and opportunities to eachother. I bet if you moved a few hours south you'd be fucked.

I wouldn't move a few hours south.

Also: If every state is unique and has different costs of living, then why do you want to stamp one federal minimum wage across the board? Seems dumb.


Quote:
You should actually move to my state
Honestly probably going to happen in the next few years if we don't buy the fast food franchise we have our eyes on. (Yes, i'm serious.)

Quote:
, we have a higher average wage than you.
That's nice. Because higher cost of living. Luckily my employer realizes that so if i transfer, i get about a 20% pay increase. Quality of living will not change.

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And a higher minimum wage.
Only relevant if either of us was making minimum wage. We're not, so it's not.


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And better education.

Don't care. Already got mine.
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:03 PM   #113
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Min wage is $12 in San Francisco.

why isn't anyone getting paid $7.25?!
Why is the unemployment level in San Fran lower than the US average?
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:06 PM   #114
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I wouldn't move a few hours south.

Also: If every state is unique and has different costs of living, then why do you want to stamp one federal minimum wage across the board? Seems dumb.
Same reason we have to force Mississippi to let black kids in school.

As we've already discovered, individual states can raise the min wage any time they want.
Quote:
Honestly probably going to happen in the next few years if we don't buy the fast food franchise we have our eyes on. (Yes, i'm serious.)

That's nice. Because higher cost of living. Luckily my employer realizes that so if i transfer, i get about a 20% pay increase. Quality of living will not change.

Only relevant if either of us was making minimum wage. We're not, so it's not.

Don't care. Already got mine.
Higher cost of living to pay for the higher quality of living, better future for your kids. You know, all the benefits of living in a place with higher minimum wage
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:06 PM   #115
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Students can do whatever they want and reach any agreement they want with an employer. An "Unpaid Internship" is a very specific thing where they trade working for school credit.
okay, hitler.
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:07 PM   #116
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Always leave my Miata out with the windows open. Never had anything stolen. Love me some high min wages!
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:07 PM   #117
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okay, hitler.
Giving up so soon? Damn, after you tried to take me apart line by line I thought you'd at least keep the effort up.
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:09 PM   #118
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Because the strong job markets in San Francisco and Denver are a result of the minimum wage levels.
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:10 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by vitamin j View Post

Higher cost of living to pay for the higher quality of living,
It's not a higher quality of living. It's the same. I determine my quality of life by how i treat myself, and what i can afford to do. If wages go up solely to combat higher COST of living, then quality of living doesn't change. This isn't a hard concept.


Quote:
better future for your kids.
What kids? Part of why my quality of living is so high is because i don't (and won't) have kids.


I have 6 vehicles right now. I could blow the motor spectacularly in any one of them and just laugh.

Because DINK.
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:14 PM   #120
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Same reason we have to force Mississippi to let black kids in school.

As we've already discovered, individual states can raise the min wage any time they want.
Why can't they lower the min wage?

Quote:
Higher cost of living to pay for the higher quality of living
You're mistaken. Higher cost of living (which is literally a higher cost of basic necessities) translates to lower quality of living.

If I have to pay more for my 200 square foot apartment - because the land value is ridiculously high - because other people who make more money than I do are willing to pay a large sum of money for the 200 square foot apartment that I want to live in - then I can't afford the other things that might contribute to a higher "quality of life".

If, in this situation, the minimum wage is raised, then there are more people competing to live in my expensive 200 square foot apartment. Since the slumlord has increased demand for his apartment, he must raise the rent on the expensive 200 square foot apartment to meet the market rate - which literally matches the land value of the apartment. Not raising rent is not an option - the options are: raise rent or sell the highly valued property to someone who will demolish all ten 200 square foot apartments and build a single family home on it - which further increases demand - a.k.a. land value - of every other local dwelling
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