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Originally Posted by samnavy
(Post 1027788)
I'm still trying to figure out how the prosecution intends to show how SYG applies here. The media went apeshit over it, and still continues to, but you can't apply it to either version of events.
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sorry for the late reply, this was funny:
they were trying to skype a witness and he got bombed. |
more show trial:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOQy-npCMAE7ApW.jpg:large this guy is outside the courthouse. |
state is planning to rest today.
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Ha. so the state called in another medical examiner who performed the autopsy and the defense is currently crossing.
he kept reading from a prepared statement. the defense was able to get the notes from him and read through them. During which, they started whispering and smiling and the Doc yelled out from the stand: Is there something funny to you?! Then the defense asked for a copy of it and he yelled out: no they are mine you cannot have. this guy is great. very arrogant, can barely speak english well. he refused to confirm a timeline of how long between the shooting and him performing the autopsy. in the official report, part of the team wrote down when the recovered the body and in the report the time the autopsy was performed was noted, but this guy refused to say yes, it was X hours between events, because he wasn't there and didn't want to lie under oath. silly guy. he testified that he could not remember the autopsy at all, he has zero recollection of the event, and has to solely rely on his notes. and he also stated: i don't think anyone can remember anything from two years ago. the defense is making him sound like a whacko. oh yeah, he also claimed that anyone working for him who would have brought him evidence in a seal plastic bag should be fired. ...the clothing was brought to him in a seal plastic bag. |
the step-brother testified that at first he had doubts it was trayvon's voice.
notes: the whole family was played the tape at the Major's office. They were all told that Trayvon's voice may be on the tape, and after they first heard it, they all claimed doubts. There was no police presence in the room plus the group environment plus the fact that they were called in by the major to listen so the political implications, and then the fact they all changed their claims to collaborate after the 'no justice, no peace' movement formed around the case, is very suspect. The State's own voice expert said that a group bias is a VERY bad thing and hurts results. |
oh yeah, and this medical guy, said that trayvon was probably alive for maybe 10-15 minutes after being shot.
this, again, collaborated GZ's statements. and again, this was a State's witness. |
man this judge is completely biased to the State. omfg.
They are discussing a possible Richardson violation in the case. (basically a discovery violation, that the state didn't give the defense some information from this witness) the judge found there was no violation, i think there was. This guy basically changed two opinions from that of his disposition and claims he told anyone about it until today in court. also this guy has just testified that the levels of marijuana in TM's system probably had a mental effect on him, but the judge will still not allow the jury to hear anything about toxicology in TM, however she allowed the doctor to claim TM was suffering for about 10-15 minutes after being shot, and allowed things into GZ's past that were not relevant. The Judge will NOT allow the jury to hear this. |
best quote to date: If someone never changes opinion, you can call them mentally retarded...
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the left has flipped:
George Zimmerman Probably Won't Be Convicted of Murder or Manslaughter -- Here's Why - ABC News I wonder if Blaen will... |
good witness for the defense right now. close friend of zimmerman, old guy, served in nam. was a medic and testified how he aided man men who were screaming in pain in need of help of a medic and could recognize them individually after spending much time with these men; He claims the voice for help is GZ (among many others called today).
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cliffs from monday:
The defense had about 7 witnesses that claimed the voice calling for help was GZ. They also had two police officers testify that TM's father first said it was not TM yelling for help. The judge reversed her decision about the toxicology report in lieu of the ME's testimony that the amount of substance in TM's body had some sort of effect on him. I bet the State is REALLY happy they called this witness for no reason. :rofl: |
You missed the testimony from Zimmerman's personal trainer who basically took the stand and talked about how much of a pansy he is and how he is soft and weak. That was my favorite highlight.
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oh yeah.
it wasn't soft and weak, it was soft and fat. on a scale of 1-10, he gave him a 0.5 in terms of his overall athleticism. |
Here's how the state is going to prove GZ acted in ill-will:
is left-handed and shoots with his right would not have invited TM to dinner had his gun chambered bought a gun without external safeties went to the gym to lose about 80-100lbs. |
GZ's current expert expert is very good both for the defense and on cross. the state cannot trip him up.
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And then the truth about it all arises.
George Zimmerman reportedly tried due to web of activists, politicians | Washington Times Communities |
everyone knows it was political. they were putting people on the stand from the major's office to ask why the major was playing the police recording to the Martin family, I have a feeling he might be able to sue the state for grievances; he deserves it if acquitted. He sounded like a really nice guy, who wanted to get into law enforcement and just do good and make a better life for himself (e.g., lost 100lbs. by going to the gym).
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judge ruled against the defense allowed to play a recreation amination of the scuffle and the cell phone texts/video/pictures recovered from TM's phone.
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Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1030197)
judge ruled against the defense allowed to play a recreation amination of the scuffle and the cell phone texts/video/pictures recovered from TM's phone.
Fine bye me! The only good work seen on the prosecution side was the hearing on admissibility of the recreation. They would have torn it apart in front of the jury. |
but if they do that, then they open up the jury to the idea of a different/multiple scenario, which in itself is reasonable doubt.
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the defense should not have called the current witness. it's adding nothing and the state is running with him.
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in FL everything is possible.
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Is it really legal to change the charges after the trial is already this far in without a plea? That seems like shady shit. What is to stop the DA from just hitting you with the highest charge he can and then just lowering the standard when he can't prove his case. That just sounds ridiculous.
EDIT: I just looked it up and in most courts it is perfectly legal for you to be tried for one charge and be convicted of a lessor charge if evidence for the original charge is insufficient. |
yeah it seems kinda weak, so they just shoot for the stars and just grab whatever they can on the way down. I feel like if you're being tried for a certain crime, that's all you should be subjected to. Although I guess any lesser charges also being considered prevents double jeopardy, where they just charge him for manslaughter after a failed 2nd degree trial or something.
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The judge is allowing the court to consider manslaughter. now they are arguing to allow child abuse charges.
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Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1030615)
Although I guess any lesser charges also being considered prevents double jeopardy, where they just charge him for manslaughter after a failed 2nd degree trial or something.
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I can definitely see a manslaughter charge sticking. Way to fucking back pedal DA.
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And now they want 3rd degree murder based on "child abuse"
Talk about a political lynching! |
West to Judge Nelson:
"Just when I thought this case couldn't get anymore bizarre...child abuse? ... This was a trick this is a trick by the state!" |
Judge: "Show me in law where it states that following someone is not illegal"
Go ahead, prove the negative. |
That is in regards to allowing it in the jury instructions; I agree with the judge in this case.
Unless there's a law that says it's specifically legal, they can't be instructed on it. All the defense has to do is make sure the jury understands that following someone is not illegal during closing statements. |
The race thing is part of THE NARRATIVE of the mass media:
(Practice spotting the media's LIES BY OMISSION in the snippets below): |
judge threw out the 3rd degree felony murder for child abuse charge.
so lesser is just: manslaughter. EDIT: oh looks like Angela Corey finally showed up to her show trial. |
I cant decide if this was her attempt to create or prevent a mistrial:
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In opening statements, the prosecution claimed GZ walked up to TM and shot him point blank in the chest. Yet to mention that about 2 hours into closing statements, just a lot a talk about a struggle before getting shot; weird. It's almost like they had to change their entire case mid-trial because their witnesses didn't match the story the Major, DOJ, and/or President of United States told them happened.
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ROFL, he just suggested that the small button/pin on TM's hoodie is why it was about 4-5" away from his body when shot.
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HE has still yet to provide any proof to the jury why GZ committed 2nd° murder...just a bunch of "how comes" and "what ifs" about GZ's story.
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I guess I will know when a verdict has been announced by watching for when the hood part of town is burned down by its inhabitants. Smoke signals, I guess you would call it.
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sounds about right.
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Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1030741)
I cant decide if this was her attempt to create or prevent a mistrial:
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here's a good summary:
Former Senatorial candidate Richard Rivette also expressed his shock at the judge’s behavior. “This judge is an idiot. I spent five years investigating high profile capital cases defending people from the death penalty, and worked for the Federal judiciary as an independent investigator on other cases. No judge ever inquires as to whether a defendant will testify until the entire defense case is presented. If the defense rests and does not call the defendant then the judge knows there will be no testimony. If the defense calls the defendant then that’s when the judge finds out. They have to get through the entire case first. To see if it is valid after prosecution cross-examines their witnesses and experts as to whether a defendant SHOULD testify, which is decided in private not in public, and NOT on the record. By doing this, the judge has undermined a portion of Zimmerman’s credibility. He looks like he is waffling and this is normal judge/defendant questioning, which it is NOT,” said Rivette. “By demanding that Zimmerman respond to a question, after she has assured him that he has the right to remain silent, she is undermining his right to remain silent and making it appear as though he and his attorneys are not firm in their convictions.” |
The State invoked MLKJ in their closing.
The Defense: Thomas Jefferson. |
we all sat in silence for 4 minutes to represent how long TM had to run from when GZ said (which was collaborated by Jenteal [the girl on the phone with TM]) he ran, till the time of the altercation.
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Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 1030794)
I guess I will know when a verdict has been announced by watching for when the hood part of town is burned down by its inhabitants. Smoke signals, I guess you would call it.
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the case goes to the jury at 2:00pm expect to see them in about 2 hours.
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1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1031143)
the case goes to the jury at 2:00pm expect to see them in about 2 hours.
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Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1031143)
the case goes to the jury at 2:00pm expect to see them in about 2 hours.
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they are beginning jury instructions now, so we'll see...
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I'm really curious to see how the manslaughter was introduced and defined to the jury and how or whether it was addressed in the closing arguments.
I heard O'Mara at one point was pretty rambling and not very compelling (about the time he called for the 4 minutes of silence). |
case is now with jury. 30 minutes to verdict :rofl:
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Originally Posted by Scrappy Jack
(Post 1031166)
I'm really curious to see how the manslaughter was introduced and defined to the jury and how or whether it was addressed in the closing arguments.
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I hope they don't take manslaughter as a bone thrown to the court.
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Oh, and me and 18 guests all up in this thread???
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Jury Instructions:
Jury instructions in the George Zimmerman trial | News 13 Of note: Justifiable use of deadly force An issue in this case is whether George Zimmerman acted in self-defense. It is a defense to the crime of Second Degree Murder, and the lesser included offense of Manslaughter, if the death of Trayvon Martin resulted from the justifiable use of deadly force. “Deadly force” means force likely to cause death or great bodily harm. A person is justified in using deadly force if he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself. In deciding whether George Zimmerman was justified in the use of deadly force, you must judge him by the circumstances by which he was surrounded at the time the force was used. The danger facing George Zimmerman need not have been actual; however, to justify the use of deadly force, the appearance of danger must have been so real that a reasonably cautious and prudent person under the same circumstances would have believed that the danger could be avoided only through the use of that force. Based upon appearances, George Zimmerman must have actually believed that the danger was real. If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony. In considering the issue of self-defense, you may take into account the relative physical abilities and capacities of George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin. If in your consideration of the issue of self-defense you have a reasonable doubt on the question of whether George Zimmerman was justified in the use of deadly force, you should find George Zimmerman not guilty. |
Given the information I have about the case it seems obvious to me the state did not prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, but I think that all the political and racial things going on with this wont make it as obvious to most, possibly even the jurors.
The fact that a verdict wasnt decided in 3.5 hours worries me. |
Don't you people have jobs?
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