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Old 07-29-2013, 02:59 PM   #241
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The IRS Wants to Be Exempt from Obamacare While also Being in Charge of Making the Rest of Us Comply:
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IRS employees have a prominent role in Obamacare, but their union wants no part of the law. National Treasury Employees Union officials are urging members to write their congressional representatives in opposition to receiving coverage through President Obama’s health care law. …Like most other federal workers, IRS employees currently get their health insurance through the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program, which also covers members of Congress. House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Dave Camp offered the bill in response to reports of congressional negotiations that would exempt lawmakers and their staff from Obamacare. …Camp spokeswoman Allie Walker said. “If the Obamacare exchanges are good enough for the hardworking Americans and small businesses the law claims to help, then they should be good enough for the president, vice president, Congress and federal employees,” she also said.
what does that tell you about the law?
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Old 07-31-2013, 08:48 AM   #242
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You really gotta love this law, how long ago did it pass, and there are still fun new stories about it discovering new things all the time:

Look out below! Work more, get less in Obamacare 'cliff'

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Working more could ultimately mean thousands of dollars less for you under a quirk in the new health-care law going into effect this fall. This could prompt some people to cut back on their hours to avoid losing money.

...

In that scenario, an individual or family whose annual income surpasses maximums set by the federal government—if only by $1—will totally lose subsidies available to buy health insurance under the Affordable Care Act.

The loss of those subsidies in some cases will mean that people potentially would have been better off financially if they had worked less during the year, Wu said. And they then would have to work significantly more to make up for the lost subsidy.

"I think they'd be surprised to see how drastic it is," said Wu. "I'd be kind of shocked to see if I make $100 less (in total income each year), I get all these benefits, but if I make $100 more, I get nothing."

"You basically don't want to fall in that hole," said Wu, adding that he believed contractors and others with more control over their incomes would be apt to adjust their hours worked to avoid the subsidy cliff.
Cliffs: If there are no goals to achieve, and nothing to work toward except a quota, there is no incentive to excel.

TL;DR The Jamestown Colony failed due to communism. Don't be the Jamestown colony.
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:05 AM   #244
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The two articles you linked about increased rates are fairly useless. One is purely speculative and the other is so vague with the use of the term "certain individuals" that you do not have a clear picture of what the overall rates are doing. It was pretty common knowledge that rates would go up for people like me (young healthy male) in order to subsidies the cost of others. What is still unknown is whether overall rates will go down.
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Old 08-07-2013, 06:27 PM   #245
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Old 08-07-2013, 07:20 PM   #246
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Makes me root for that 28th Amendment going through congress, where all laws that apply to us little guys also apply to Congress. Even that Commie Ryan_G should have no problems with that one.
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Old 08-07-2013, 07:31 PM   #247
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Makes me root for that 28th Amendment going through congress, where all laws that apply to us little guys also apply to Congress. Even that Commie Ryan_G should have no problems with that one.
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Old 08-07-2013, 08:36 PM   #248
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Old 08-08-2013, 07:17 PM   #249
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While not directly related, it is in the general subject...
"In Belgium, he paid $13,660 for everything. That included his new hip implant, the surgeon's fees, the hospital fees, a week in rehab and a round-trip plane ticket from the U.S., soup to nuts.

"Now, if he had done that surgery in the U.S, it would've been billed at somewhere between $100,000 and $130,000 at a private hospital. ... So there's a huge difference. In fact, this gentleman, Mr. Shopenn, was a great consumer, and he tried to have it done in the U.S., and he priced out joint implants and found that the wholesale joint implant cost ... was $13,000. So in the U.S., for that $13,000 he could get a joint — a piece of metal and plastic and ceramic — whereas in Europe he could get everything."
This is definitely a subject area in which I would very much like to increase my understanding.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/04/he...osenthal&_r=1&

It describes an American whose health insurance refused to cover his hip replacement, considering it to ultimately be a result of a much earlier injury ("pre-existing condition"). Having to pay out of pocket, he ended up traveling to Europe to have an American-made implant installed for about what the implant itself would have cost in the USA.
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Old 08-08-2013, 07:38 PM   #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrappy Jack View Post
While not directly related, it is in the general subject...
"In Belgium, he paid $13,660 for everything. That included his new hip implant, the surgeon's fees, the hospital fees, a week in rehab and a round-trip plane ticket from the U.S., soup to nuts.

"Now, if he had done that surgery in the U.S, it would've been billed at somewhere between $100,000 and $130,000 at a private hospital. ... So there's a huge difference. In fact, this gentleman, Mr. Shopenn, was a great consumer, and he tried to have it done in the U.S., and he priced out joint implants and found that the wholesale joint implant cost ... was $13,000. So in the U.S., for that $13,000 he could get a joint a piece of metal and plastic and ceramic whereas in Europe he could get everything."
This is definitely a subject area in which I would very much like to increase my understanding.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/04/he...osenthal&_r=1&

It describes an American whose health insurance refused to cover his hip replacement, considering it to ultimately be a result of a much earlier injury ("pre-existing condition"). Having to pay out of pocket, he ended up traveling to Europe to have an American-made implant installed for about what the implant itself would have cost in the USA.
Oh, oh, I know! Mr. Shopenn could have gone to the same U.S. hospital with a broken arm, paid an exorbitant amount through his insurance, a lesser amount if he paid with cash, or he could have seen the same doctors and could have been fixed for free if he was an ESL illegal immigrant. On a similar note, I wonder what the tort laws are in Belgium... I would guess that they limit awards more than here.

I'll have to ask my dad about the cost of his hip replacements at Hogue Hospital in Newport Beach. I wonder if it's more or less than the NYT's Mr. Shopinn.
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Old 08-08-2013, 07:49 PM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_G View Post
The two articles you linked about increased rates are fairly useless. One is purely speculative and the other is so vague with the use of the term "certain individuals" that you do not have a clear picture of what the overall rates are doing. It was pretty common knowledge that rates would go up for people like me (young healthy male) in order to subsidies the cost of others. What is still unknown is whether overall rates will go down.
Define "overall rates" as used in your post.

I work pretty deeply within the industry, so maybe i can offer an interesting viewpoint.
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Old 08-08-2013, 07:59 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Define "overall rates" as used in your post.

I work pretty deeply within the industry, so maybe i can offer an interesting viewpoint.
Ryan_G is discussing how the Proletariat would divide the cost among the masses, allowing (of course) for the Proletariat's exemption from said programs as announced earlier this week, and less the added cost of the layer of party workers required to administer this cluster...of greatness.

Speaking of the new administration layer, the good folks at the SEIU and other like-minded party workers will help to transition the masses from patient choice to a better, more centrally-planned system. Oh, they'll be helping with voter registration as well.

Last edited by cordycord; 08-08-2013 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 08-08-2013, 08:17 PM   #253
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So he simply wants to know if rates will go up on average across the entire board?

Well.... yeah.

Where it COULD even out would be statewide when less taxes would be necessary to be taken from you and I to pay for the tax dollars not taken from services that had to be written off by facilities because the uninsured never paid.

But that won't happen.


What also isn't likely to happen is for actual billed costs to come down in terms of what providers are charging. Because they like their bargaining chip, and artificially inflating prices is a great way to get insurance companies to pay closer to what they actually want to receive. Then there's the joneses to pay for for the newest equipment every 2 weeks that never hangs around long enough to really make money, the advertising that isn't allowed in most other countries, the beautiful bamboo floors that they put in everywhere, which i really appreciate when i'm bleeding/shitting/puking/limping all over on my way in....
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:54 PM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cordycord View Post
Oh, oh, I know! Mr. Shopenn could have gone to the same U.S. hospital with a broken arm, paid an exorbitant amount through his insurance, a lesser amount if he paid with cash, or he could have seen the same doctors and could have been fixed for free if he was an ESL illegal immigrant. On a similar note, I wonder what the tort laws are in Belgium... I would guess that they limit awards more than here.

I'll have to ask my dad about the cost of his hip replacements at Hogue Hospital in Newport Beach. I wonder if it's more or less than the NYT's Mr. Shopinn.
My dad forgets what he paid for his hips, but remembers most was paid by Medicaid/care. His guess was $3k, and mom's was $1,500. As we all know, millions will be pushed into Medicaid under ACA and I forget--was $600 million taken out of Medicare to help fund Obamacare? I remember a lot of anger, but I don't remember the outcome.
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Old 08-22-2013, 08:56 AM   #255
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The Obama Department of Health and Human Services has begun a $30,000 prize pool for videos promoting Obamacare. The taxpayer cash comes from the money slotted for the Obamacare “education and outreach budget.” The contest website, YoungInvincibles.org, recommends a few possible videos they’d like to see from contestants, including “An awesome superhero or action-movie style video showing how young people feel like invincible movie heroes. Cut back to reality to show us how, in fact, anyone can be hurt.” The video would presumably not explain how those young people’s chances of using health insurance are significantly lower than those of older people, or how younger people will be subsidizing the elderly via their elevated health insurance rates.
Video Contest | Healthy Young America
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Old 08-22-2013, 08:57 AM   #256
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Old 08-22-2013, 08:58 AM   #257
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Companies sweating Obamacare tax—and acting on it: Study

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...In fact, 40 percent of 420 companies surveyed by Towers Watson said they will be changing their insurance plans' designs in 2014 in light of the coming excise tax as well as to control employee-related health costs...
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:01 AM   #258
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Why The "Young Invincibles" Won't Participate In The ObamaCare Exchanges and Why It Matters

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The study, conducted by the National Center for Public Policy Research, concludes that Americans aged 18 to 34 without children would benefit financially by opting to pay the government's $95 or one percent of income penalty and not sign up for the Obamacare health exchanges.

"About 3.7 million of those ages 18-34 will be at least $500 better off if they forgo insurance and pay the penalty," says the report. "More than 3 million will be $1,000 better off if they go the same route."
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:02 AM   #259
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ObamaScare: UVa drops health care bomb on employees | The Schilling Show Blog

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Working spouse provision: Starting Jan. 1, spouses who have access to coverage through their own employer will no longer be eligible for coverage under U.Va.’s plan. Spouses who do not have coverage elsewhere can remain on the employee’s plan, and coverage of children is not affected. ...

Provisions of the federal Affordable Care Act are projected to add $7.3 million to the cost of the University health plan in 2014 alone. Federal health care reform will create new costs related to the “individual mandate” that requires all Americans to have health care coverage (or pay a penalty).
UVA was a public supporter of ObamaCare:
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I am writing on behalf of the University of Virginia Medical Center to indicate our support of the health reform package pending before the House because we believe providing affordable health coverage for more citizens of the Commonwealth is critical
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:08 AM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
So he simply wants to know if rates will go up on average across the entire board?

Well.... yeah.

Where it COULD even out would be statewide when less taxes would be necessary to be taken from you and I to pay for the tax dollars not taken from services that had to be written off by facilities because the uninsured never paid.

But that won't happen.


What also isn't likely to happen is for actual billed costs to come down in terms of what providers are charging. Because they like their bargaining chip, and artificially inflating prices is a great way to get insurance companies to pay closer to what they actually want to receive. Then there's the joneses to pay for for the newest equipment every 2 weeks that never hangs around long enough to really make money, the advertising that isn't allowed in most other countries, the beautiful bamboo floors that they put in everywhere, which i really appreciate when i'm bleeding/shitting/puking/limping all over on my way in....
I actually tend to lean toward most of your predictions that costs will not come down. I am just trying not to be completely blinded by my convictions without hard data currently available on how this will actually play out. I have read conflicting stories of rates going down in some places (California) and rates going up in other place (private industry) but all of the articles I read seem to have a very clear political agenda and I can't sort through what is fact and what is distorted.

It is also unclear to me if parties on both sides are somehow creating better/worse results in the short term on purpose to push their political ideology. Obviously it is in the best interests of a place like California that is super liberal to report a reduction in healthcare costs to validate their support of the law. It is also in the best interests of private industry to exaggerate the projections and actual effects of the changes to allow them to continue to justify opposing the bill.

I think this whole thing is going to be a complete disaster and we will be picking up the pieces for years to come but I can't be 100% sure on that until it happens.
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